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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been around guns my whole life but never read any forums about them until lately. I am blown away with the negative attitude towards Taurus. You can't even talk about Taurus guns without being told how bad they are. This was very surprising to me bc it is the exact opposite of what I have always heard from fellow friends and hunters. The majority of my hunting/shooting buddies have Taurus revolvers and a few autos. I have never heard of a problem and everyone thinks they are among the best around.

When i started looking for a .45, the 2 companies I looked at first were Glock and Taurus bc I have been around them and they have all been fantastic. Since joining these boards, all I have heard is how bad they suck. I admit there are a lot of reports of problems. However, I have asked 3 very large gun stores about their experiences.The first was THE largest non major retail gun shop in Little Rock and probably the state. They are a large glock and Sig store but carry most brands. They told me that the Milleniums and the 24/7 pros were among the most reliable and toughest autos they have dealt with. I asked specifics and they admitted that the early models of both had some minor problems but they have been fixed andthey were never bad in the first place. they also said that the same problems have been seen in several other manufacturers and they went on to name many common problems with glock, sig and especially Kimber.

Next I asked Academy sports. there is only one guy there that knows anything but we had the same conversation. he has worked in several gun shops and is fairly knowledgable. His comments were similar to the previous gunshop. He said that the newer tauruses have a great track record and they very rarely hear negative feedback on them. He said that Glocks tend to be the least likely to be returned but Taurus wasn't far behind.

Lastly, I was at Sportsman Warehouse in Rogers, Ar today. I told them I was looking for a 9mm that would mainly be used at the range but would also see some carry time. I want one that is durable and not a Glock(I just don't like their feel). He pulls three guns...A Springfield, the 24/7 Pro and the PT111. I did not tell him that I had a PT145 but told him that I had heard bad things about Taurus. He goes on to say that they highly recommend taurus guns. He praised them up and down and informed me that he owns 2 of them.

I just don't understand the inconsistancy of internet reports vs. everyone else that I have spoken to personally.

What gives?

Sorry for the long post, I am travelling and bored in the hotel!
 

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i think the short answer is:

when you deal a lot of guns, you see their bad and their good and(in this case) realize the good heavily outweighs the bad.

on the net, you are mostly dealing with non-dealers.  if they get a QC failure the gun sucks, the manufacturer sucks, taurus's owner's parents suck, etc.  you then get people who browse the forums and see the random post about xxx gun sucks and take that to heart instead of knowing that if someone has a bad experience they will shout from the rooftops, while a good experience rarely generates a post


--edit--
in tauruss' case, it might have to do with the price or vanity of the consumer. i have a friend who's kimber has had multiple problems but he is reluctant to mention them even to me because of the price he paid when compared to mine. i assume its because of the whole "i paid more but you got better" stigma

i am just as guilty as far as the ranting goes.  i know if i were to ever have a problem with either of my tauruss' i would be posting up in every forum saying xxx went wrong, how to i fix it or why is it doing xxx.  posted one the other day about my pt1911 not locking back on an empty slide and the mag being difficult to remove when it happens.  as of yet, i havent posted up with all the fun/success ive had with it other than that instance.
 

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In my fairly prolix history with firearms, I can confidently say that you get more than you pay for with Taurus. I have to chuckle at the uncompromising biases that develop surrounding ALL competing mainstream products; i.e., GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler; Johnson/Evinrude vs. Mercury/Mariner vs. Yamaha vs. Honda; and on and on and on. Simply put, you MUST have a product with redeemable value to establish yourself as a "player" in any marketplace. All of these major entities (and major gun manufacturers) would not exist for long without somewhat comparable products. Customer service, warranty repairs and after-market accessories go a long ways toward dictating these biases (in my opinion). And as discussed in other threads, gun manufacturers who have established themselves with longstanding police & military contracts enjoy the civilian sales that dovetail off of their industrial reputations.
 

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http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=1814.0

People who actually use and have Taurus is what counts. Not the "convential wisdom" that is not wise. Those who do not have Taurus products are unqualified to speak on these things for the most part if not completely.




What boykinhntr is getting at is some things that have been happening at TFL and other large gun forums. For example:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303193
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=293984

There is a contingent of rabid anti-Taurus, or even Brand X guns (fill in the X), who have declared themselves THE authority on all things guns at TFL and THR. The gist is that while the self anointed gods have declared that they know all there is, have no formal knowledge or experience with Taurus products ( very few of the self anointed have very minor Taurus experience), and pontificate that know all Taurus guns "suck" because of "logic" says so. Oh,yes. So do the owners.

Doesn't matter that these arrogant bullies have nothing to hang the hat on except innuendo,lies, anecdotal evidence and hearsay.

These self anointed demi-gods also claim that all gun specific gun forums are trash and that under no circumstances is info from them to be considered valid. Especially if that advice or info is from this forum or from Taurus Talk. Everyone is to follow their "logic" and pontifications. No one else.

Yet their "logic" also says that all of the recommendations they make as a whole are invalid as well. That's following their whole line of faulty "rationalization" or "reasoning. Therefore, they are invalid as well. Try to wrap your mind around that trail of reasoning. BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB!!

This has been all proven false, but yet these guys feel it's okay to come in on any Taurus thread and trash the Taurus owners and the guns. Name call,bully,and anything else their little black hearts desire.

Oh,yes. Management at TFL sees nothing wrong with the bullying and will not lift a finger to do anything.Been there, done that.

On the other hand here's a short composite of things from here that prove things go the other way.
Facts and truth still trump this kind of thing. Speaking out still is the way to go
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=8038.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=6016.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=7203.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=7865.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=5783.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=143.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=426.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=898.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=1622.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=557.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=5755.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=7865.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=7111.0

JR47, now JR here, torpedoed all the "arguments" and so called "logic" attacks way back when at TFL. Took point by point and destroyed them all. So did other alumni from THR and TFL. Yet the bellowing gets louder at those forums.

This is about a few of these types at THR and TFL. Not the majority. This can be true at other gun forums as well.

Take heart. If brand X satifies your niche,need, or want and you are satisfied with the gun, then that's all that matters.
 

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boykinhntr said:
I just don't understand the inconsistancy of internet reports vs. everyone else that I have spoken to personally.

What gives?
Rant

Welcome to the internet. Everyone teams up, bashes, and hates, on anything the "knowledgable" guys don't like. All it takes is one person to not like something, then 500 people start chiming in, even though 99.9% of them have no idea what they're talking about, and have not even owned, or experienced, the product they are bashing. It's always the same story: "I know a guy who's cousin said his friend owned a Taurus, and it jammed all the time. That was 6 years ago, but I'd stay away from them if I were you". In the real world, everyone I've spoken with loves Taurus firearms, but in the mystical land of teh interwebs, Taurus is a plague that must be avoided at the cost of the lives of children and puppy dogs. It's freaking retarded.

/Rant
 

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It's been my experience that all of the nay-sayers I've encountered have never owned a Taurus. When challenged for specifics as to back up their claims they could never produce them, but only had 3rd party claims. An example of this is I shoot my PT 145 Pro at our local IPSC shoot in the production class, I do this because it is my primary carry weapon and I feel it will increase my proficiency with it. At the last shoot, I had several FTF's with the rounds stove piping on me. Some of the shooters immediately responded with "it's because you've got a Taurus!" The only recommendations they could give me was to "give it away and by something reliable." After discussing this matter with the brethren of this forum, I found that I had not ran my rounds through the crimping die (first time reloading after 20 years). I ran the remaining rounds from the original batch through the crimping die, took them out to the range and fired 50rds without a hitch...I can't wait to go to our next shoot this weekend, with the same Taurus pistol and 150rds of properly loaded ammunition...I'm sure they won't say anything positive after the smoke clears.
 

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It might be interesting to ask how or why they know what they think to be true is so. Actual fact that is.

At the gun forums it's pretty much like you folks have stated. Little,nothing,no specifics , or any other details ever come out.

As for competition, I've witnessed and the gun writers report it, other brands choke... sometimes more than once yet never is the "get rid of it and get something else" reasoning ever used.

Many a high priced 1911 or special Tactical pistol has jammed, had parts break, sights fall off, or buttons or levers drop off. Yet, oh well, stuff happens is the mantra.

I shoot the Ruger P95 at IDPA. You should here the comments on that. Nice gun,but not in my class brother. It's.....well, okay I guess. That's all said grudgingly.

Anything considered a budget gun is looked down upon. Not always the majority of shooters though.
 

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Of all the places I have gone locally, only one shop doesn't particularly like Taurus. Everyone else says exactly what they are...a great gun for the price. The one shop I mentioned never likes to sell anything at a competitive price anyway, so I ignore their points of view anyway.
 

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Kick some ass Sleeper. I wanna know what they think of your gun after it beats the tar out of the gun snobs guns.
 

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I have gone to 4 IDPA fun shoots and they are fun. I use my PT1911, I have gotting a few negative comments on it, mainly from the high end guys, even after out shooting 3 of them. You would be surprised at the number of people that do use Taurus handguns. We are the ones having the fun.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Once again Taurus is getting slammed on TFL. I guess alot of people have had problems, However, there are about 10 people that posted their problems yet they have 54 votes. My guess is people voting on without any experience with Taurus guns...simply their reputation.

I don't know maybe my PT145 does suck.
 

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boykinhntr said:
Once again Taurus is getting slammed on TFL. I guess alot of people have had problems, However, there are about 10 people that posted their problems yet they have 54 votes. My guess is people voting on without any experience with Taurus guns...simply their reputation.

I don't know maybe my PT145 does suck.
Do you say that just because a bunch of yahoos said so? Or are you saying that from experience? :rolleyes:
 

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All of my Rossi, and Taurus guns suck and will be broke in a week, or was that a day! :rolleyes:

I have a very low budget for guns, broke, retired, fixed income! But where I might have had one of their great :mad: guns. I have been able to obtain 5 guns, everyone is a gun that no one in their right mind would buy!! So I must be totally insane :) ! I do not shoot every day, but I have really only had one problem "broken mag for my PT111". Oh sure I had a round get stuck one time in about 1000. My Rossi revolver was dirty and locked up on the forcing cone (I cleaned it).

But they just keep going bang, when I pull the trigger :) :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Smokewagon said:
Do you say that just because a bunch of yahoos said so? Or are you saying that from experience? :rolleyes:
It was tongue in cheek
 

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Since the majority voters have brought nothing of substance,backed up the claim with evidence, or have any real data to show otherwise, why believe them? It is a unscientific poll at one gun forum where a rabid anit-Taurus crowd shows up. This is fact.

Voting and not backing up the vote makes things questionable if not downright false.

Then there are the users,owners,and satisfied customers who use them,many people for decades who trust their very lives to them. None of these people would be stupid,ignorant,or dumb to do so. Far from it. No viable data to point at us Taurui crowd and be able to say so. Only hearsay from the anti-crowd.That is at TFL,THR, Glock Talk, Taurus Talk, and at this forum. There are recent PT1911 and several other Taurus threads where the owners are satisfied

There are many small threads at all these forums of satisfied owners that are virtually ignored by the anti-crowd. Or they do come in,add nothing of substance, but trash the people and the choice. They were not asked in nor do they truly add anything of substance to the proceedings. Yet they show up anyway.

For this you have doubt about the PT145 on their sayso from those who do not have that particular brand or make of pistol? Wow.

Granted, pistols can and do malfunction times. A large amount of the time the malfuction is user inflicted. Easy to do. Other times it might be something did actually break,come loose, or some other factor. Those usually can be fixed by the owner, correcting their own shooting technique, or work through the problem with someone else's help from people in the know.

Keep the gun and shoot it regularly if possible. Do the proper care and maintenance when needed. Follow and practice good shooting procedures and methods. The rest will take care of itself. Find out as much about mechanical function of the gun, dynamics of shooting, and ballistics as possible. This puts one in a better position to make informed opinions, seperate fact from fiction, and to be able to know what the truth really is. Not fabrications.

So yes, the PT145 can break and need fixing. All brands, makes,models do this regularly. The gun forums are awash right now with Glock,H&K,S&W, and other brands having mechanical problems,parts breakage, or malfunctions There are ways to take care of that and work throught the problem. Gun owners have to be ready to do that. Part and parcel of the shooting fraternity.

Every few thousand rounds or so recoil springs and other small parts may need replacing,cleaning,refurbishing, or minor work done to them. These are mechanical contrivances after all.

Since the gun is working out for you why have doubts? No there is no total guarantee something will not happen for negative reasons. Nor is there a total guarantee for positive results except the experiences of others and what experience you have. In our collective experience the Tauri guns keep going, and going, and going.

Accredited gun instructors all over the nation, not all, but enough who've been there and sone that,faced death daily and carfied or still do, have espoused Taurus products as being well made and reommend them to LEOs and civilians alike. Any number of these accreditted instructors, gun writers, and professional shooters carry or have carried Taurus guns for their own protection.

Now take that and the actual satisfied customers here and at the other gun forums who have put thousands of rounds down range successfully and count on the Taurus products to protect themselves and other people.

Has anyone been hurt gravely or been killed because their Taurus product failed? Not one instance that's been hard core varified anywhere is on the real world record.

If it was the military,LEO, and civilain instructors,teachers, or others would be laying it out there for all to see.
The anti-crowd says that there Taurus product failed. Never do they try work it out,or claim that CS service sucks(that might have been years ago if it actually took place, Taurus took steps to upgrade CS some time ago), and then sold the gun when it got back from repair. Usually no in depth details are given on any of this.

The gun is given no chance at all to perform at all in these cases. How do they know for sure the gun will not function properly over time as has been the collective experience here or at other forums?

Yet most people once a gun is fixed keep it and use it. If it becomes a major problem continually, (real evidence be ing presented) then there is reason to get something more reliable. One example does not condemn a whole gun series, but does so by the anti-Taurus crowd.

If that group does not like Taurus, then stay out of the threads and posts. It's one thing to have a gun go belly up. It is another to go to just about all the brand X gun threads and trash the people and their choices.

Example: I have a Ruger SR9 that's been recalled for safety reasons. Yes, I am disatisfied with the gun and the situation. However I do own other Ruger products and will not trash Ruger for this one thing depsite my feelings.

Had a weak Ruger P95 mag release spring early on when it was first bought. Ruger forum members gave good advice on how to replace it.

No,Taurus is not pie in the sky, nor do the owners have stars in their eyes and undying fanaticism to Taurus. Truth be told there are many here who have other brands, makes, and models. Don't see any fanatacism there.

Others have loyalty to Taurus only because their niches and needs been fulfilled for what was needed and they all have no need to look farther than what they have. That is not fanaticism or anything else negative. Just common sense,clear thinking, well thought out reasoning.

And for that we are condemned?

What planet did those guys come from?

There are those who will have a bad experience with Taurus. For that we can empathize with to a degree. It happens with all the gun companies out there at some time or other. If some feel that they ahve been burned and spurn Taurus, so be it. It happens to all the brands,makes,and models put out there by all the gun companies.

There's a difference between dislike and total fanatacism against a brand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Guys I said "maybe my gun does suck" as a joke. It was tongue in cheek. I love my PT145 and plan on buying another Taurus(either 24/7 Pro or possibly PT1911) in the near future.

I agree that very little was brought to the table to back up the votes. Just a bunch of followers. There are certainly some folks that have gotten lemons and I understand that but the poll is bogus and NO they do not effect me. Read my posts on TFL and you will see me bragging on my gun and recommending it to others.
 

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Just checkin', thought maybe you were funnin'. Anyway, for your next, may I recommend the PT1911. I'm a new owner, and these things are sweet. :thumb: My PT145 is still my CC favorite though.
 

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I've got the PT1911 and love it and I'm a 1911 fan but my next is going to be the 145 mil pro.

By the way watch any IDPA or ISPC match and when you see Todd Jarrett and the rest of the big boys clear a jam remember they have teams of gunsmith/engineers backing them up. There jam was not caused because someone had a Taurus in the crowd.
 

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Smile when you say that boykinhntr. LOL
Normally it is tongue in cheek. However we've actually had several new members who REALLY meant it. They were dead serious about it.

Besides, someone is going to blame President Bush for their all their troubles and tribulations. It's been done. LOL
 
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