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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I posted this on another thread by I think it deserves it's own thread so more people can see it.

It is important for you to not talk to the police after you have been involved in a shooting.

Here is a great 27 minute video by a law professor of why talking to the police is not good for you to do.

http://www.alexrudloff.com/2008/06/07/dont-talk-to-the-police/

In the comments area you can also see the next speakers video. He is a veteran cop who has "interviewed" many people. He talks about the tricks of the trade to get you to talk so it can be used against you.

If you thought before, that if you shoot someone and it was self defense and you are totally innocent that you can just explain it to the police and you will walk away, then you are wrong. You are part of a system now.

The best thing you can do is use your 5th amendment rights and SHUT UP! Get a lawyer on your side and get ready for a fight for you life.

I hope this video changes a few minds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Here is the video of the LEO who talked after the professor.


[video=google;6014022229458915912]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6014022229458915912&q=&hl=en[/video]
 

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There are certain things that the Police will need to know on the scene. They can ask you for your name, and basic information, even after you request an attorney. NOT communicating at all will result in your arrest, it's just easier for them at that point.

I was always taught to inform them that you warned the perp that you were armed, that he/she continued to act in a threatening manner, and that you fired to stop him/her. At that point you tell them that you're too upset to speak to them about it, and respectfully ask for your attorney to be present PRIOR to any further questioning.

Remember, if you were unable to dial 911 prior to the incident, along with your name and address, you need to tell the operator what has occurred (a shooting in self-defense), that there is an injured person present, and that you need the police and an ambulance immediately.

If you were able to reach 911, leave the phone on, and shout to the oncoming bad guy if you are forced to shoot. Afterwards, ask for the ambulance, and follow the police officer's directions. ASK for your attorney before answering "what happened", and giving your spiel. Be polite, but don't volunteer information. These men and women weren't there. They only have what, and how, you say it unfolded to go on. You're exited, relieved, and worried. You may say something that can be construed to make you out to be a felon.
 

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This really makes you think and makes one realize you need a post shooting plan as well as pre- and trans-. You can be mentally prepared to defend you and yours, trained in the use of your weapon and marksmanship, successfully defend yourself and your family from an intruder and then be stuck between a rock and a hard place when notifying the authorities afterwards. If, as JR notes above, you call 911 after the fact and inform them of a self defense shooting in your home requiring police and ambulance response you have made a statement, that is recorded, that could be used as a confession you shot someone. It might be better to just ask that police and ambulance be dispatched and put the onus of getting the proper people to the scene on the 911 operator as opposed to laying the foundation of the prosecution's case against you. In IL if you say you need police and ambulance they are required to send police and ambulance. If it turns out to be a false alarm they'll charge/fine you for abuse of the system, but that's after the fact. Any lawyers out there care to clarify?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
JR said:
There are certain things that the Police will need to know on the scene. They can ask you for your name, and basic information, even after you request an attorney. NOT communicating at all will result in your arrest, it's just easier for them at that point.

I was always taught to inform them that you warned the perp that you were armed, that he/she continued to act in a threatening manner, and that you fired to stop him/her. At that point you tell them that you're too upset to speak to them about it, and respectfully ask for your attorney to be present PRIOR to any further questioning.

Remember, if you were unable to dial 911 prior to the incident, along with your name and address, you need to tell the operator what has occurred (a shooting in self-defense), that there is an injured person present, and that you need the police and an ambulance immediately.

If you were able to reach 911, leave the phone on, and shout to the oncoming bad guy if you are forced to shoot. Afterwards, ask for the ambulance, and follow the police officer's directions. ASK for your attorney before answering "what happened", and giving your spiel. Be polite, but don't volunteer information. These men and women weren't there. They only have what, and how, you say it unfolded to go on. You're exited, relieved, and worried. You may say something that can be construed to make you out to be a felon.
Did you watch the videos and still come up with this idea? The videos go over how what you wrote what you would do could put you in jail.
 

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That is a summation of an LFI course.

Georgia is a Castle state, and has recently passed legislation that removes any duty to retreat from the picture outside of the home.

Does anyone actually think that calling 911 and reporting a shooting in which you were involved is going to send you to jail? What you have done is set the ground-work for a self-defense claim. By then volunteering only your name, address (if not at home) and your CCW permit (again, if not at home) you have provided the police with necessary compliance. Asking for an attorney at that point will enable you to think about what has happened in a calmer state of mind, and make statements later. Telling the police that you were attacked, warned the party, and then defended yourself is non-information in and of itself. That much will come out of witnesses, statements from the perp if he lives, and forensic evidence. It will, however, also portray you as upset, but helpful in the initial investigation.

A flat-out refusal to speak with the police without an attorney present is going to signal that the investigation needs to be made much more thorough, and will result in the report citing your non-cooperation. You can also expect to be Mirandized, and taken to the station, no matter how righteous the facts.

One attorney's ideas are only good where he practices. DA's, public opinion, and how you are perceived will count easily as much as your attorney. You could be 100% correct in everything that's done, but the perception that you're hiding something will cause you to spend money defending yourself. Want to take that chance?
 

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JR said:
A flat-out refusal to speak with the police without an attorney present is going to signal that the investigation needs to be made much more thorough, and will result in the report citing your non-cooperation. You can also expect to be Mirandized, and taken to the station, no matter how righteous the facts.
You are 100% correct JR. Just keep it simple when involved in a SD shooting.
Co-operate with the responding officers by giving your name, concealed weapons permit (if applicable), and another form of ID so that they may run you through the system just to see the type of person they are dealing with.
Give a VERY BASIC synopsis of what transpired without giving in-depth details. (As JR stated) Then tell the officers you would like to speak with your attorney and not answer anymore questions at this time.

Police officers know this drill quite well and will totally understand where you are coming from.

I've been in LE for a long time and this advice I am giving you comes from me as a member of this forum. Remember, co-operation, no matter how little it may be is viewed in a much more positive light than keeping your mouth shut and acting like you know it all.

In the end though, it's all up to you what you say and do.
 

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I think this guy in the video is dead-on.....the less you say, the better. Even a simple proclamation of innocence is turned and twisted and perverted into something that can send you to jail for a long, long time. Tell them that you defended yourself, hand them your license and your CHL, then tell them you need to speak with your attorney and don't wish to answer any questions, just like NYPD said. I wouldn't want to come off as a rude jerk, but I think most LEO's will understand that you are still in the shock of the moment and respect that. If not, they'll put you in jail and you can explain it to your lawyer when he gets there. Everybody who took a concealed handgun carry course knows that if you're involved in a shooting, it's a very real possibility that you're going to be arrested anyway, or the next thing to it.

And for God's sake, if you do go into the jail, even briefly, keep your mouth shut !! You don't want to tell your side of the story to some career hood who will run to the DA and try to lessen his own sentence by putting you away with something you told him that could be easily misconstrued.

My dad was an assistant DA in Dallas County for 20 years, learn from others who had to learn the hard way........
 

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Not everyone in the jail cell is a crook wouldn't be the first time that they stick a rough undercover LEO in the cell with you so SAY NOTHING. a simlple statment like theres been so many break ins I'm sick of it. Could mean your not in fear for your life but just sick of vandels could leave you in a big pile of kaka
 

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I was always trained to say two, things and then NOTHING ELSE.

1) He left me no choice

2) He was going to kill Me.
 

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I was told to say 3 things:

!) I was in fear for my Life
2) It happenned so Fast
3) My mind is so cloudy (if police insisted That i'd have to discuss this with my Attorney.
Guess what? You've just inadvertly Lawyered up!!!! The Police have 72 hours to make the report why hurry the process. I will never say don't cooperate with the police, cause that will make it difficult.But Never say anything without an Attorney Present cause this is also your right!!!
Nothing wrong with giving them your name address . but anything related to incident you should have your lawyer present.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
mp3mogul said:
I was always trained to say two, things and then NOTHING ELSE.

1) He left me no choice

2) He was going to kill Me.
Both of these statements can be studied by a DA who is in an election year and is getting pressure to convict you.

1) If the DA can think of other choices you could have used then the jury might believe you didn't make the right choice.

2) This statement is a guess. You don't know what the other guy was going to do. So why say it?

The DA can put the guys friends and family on the stand to say that the other guy wouldn't hurt a fly. Since you didn't know the guy as much as they do then you look like you made the wrong choice toward the wrong guy.

The truth might be you felt you had no choice and you felt the guy was going to kill you but the things you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.
 

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why is it so hard to just keep our mouths shut? Just make a polite statement that you want your attorney, then zip it.......I think the guy in the video is right, people ultimately want to talk and explain 'why' they do things, and this is eventually our downfall.
 

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texastaurusguy said:
why is it so hard to just keep our mouths shut? Just make a polite statement that you want your attorney, then zip it.......I think the guy in the video is right, people ultimately want to talk and explain 'why' they do things, and this is eventually our downfall.
+1 What you say can and will be used againest you!!!!!!
 

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Well,

I used those statements twice (2 gunfights) and I was not charged either time. Let's pray that I'm never in another one. I agree that we should never volunteer or answer questions, it's just that during my first concealed course years and years and years ago, these were the 2 answers I was told to give. He left me with no choice, I was in fear of my life..... I will use them everytime before lawyer'ing up.
 

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I thought they could only use against you what you say after being read your rights and at that point you can have an attorney present at any future questioning but they will not apoint you an attorney if you have not yet been arrested so why ask for one and why take the fifth if you are not yet under arrest? maybe things are different outside the great state of Texas
 

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MPanova said:
I thought they could only use against you what you say after being read your rights and at that point you can have an attorney present at any future questioning but they will not apoint you an attorney if you have not yet been arrested so why ask for one and why take the fifth if you are not yet under arrest? maybe things are different outside the great state of Texas
Here's the short version:

The police do NOT need to give you the Miranda warning UNLESS:
1: YOU are in custody
2: THEY are asking you questions.

BOTH of the above have to apply for it to be necessary.

If the police have not arrested you, they can ask all the questions they want and use the answers against you later. They CAN arrest you after questioning you, if you give them enough info.

If the police have arrested you and you start blabbing to them, they can use this info, as long as they weren't questioning you.

If you were arrested and never read the Miranda warning, it doesn't matter, as long as they stopped asking you questions after the "arrest." EVERYTHING you said BEFORE your arrest can be used.

Is that clear to all y'all? (Notice my proper use of the plural of "y'all" :) )

Those are the basics, constitutionally speaking. IANAL, however, and each state may be a little different.
 

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Anyone who has ever been in court and had the other guys lawyer work you over, and this holds just as true if you are facing the DA will know how quickly they can take the simplest thing you say and turn it into a major case against you. DA's are under tremendous pressure to win cases as that is how they get pay raises and promotions and they are not always so worried about the truth, but can they win. There are exceptions of course, but winning is primary to any lawyer. I even had one tell me once " sit down and shut up, if there is any lying to be done i will do it."

The same holds true for the cop who is wanting to question you. His job is to get evidence to give the DA for convictions and his future pay raises and promotions depend on his performance.

Why take the chance? Be polite, give your name and address and clam up asking for a lawyer. Only a fool has himself for a lawyer...
 

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I hope and pray that I never have to fire my weapon, against another person. I know it may never happen, or it might happen today! I prepare and practice in case!

I now carry in my wallet, this card. Right next to my ID, and where my CCDW will be when it arrives.

If I have given this to you, it has been necessary to take actions to defend innocent life. I am willing to sign a criminal complaint against the perpetrators(s). I will point out witnesses and evidence.

As you may have experienced yourself, this is a stressful and traumatic experience for me. Therefore, I wish to make no further statements until I have contacted an attorney and composed myself. I also do not consent to any searches. I will cooperate fully once I have consulted with an attorney and calmed down. As a lawfully armed citizen, I ask for the same courtesy that you would show a fellow officer who was involved in a similar situation.
Thank you for your understanding.
.Printed 05/01/2008


I am in the process of finding out who is the best local attorney, (from my current business attorney) to handle this type of case. I tend to have a big mouth, so am very aware of the need to keep it buttoned, if I am ever forced to use a weapon.
 
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