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I have and have had other 1911s including another 9mm Taurus.
Saturday, after about 10 magazines, I was still shooting my PT1911 9mm low and left. Very low and left.
Same experience I had with it last time out and the time before that. I shot my .32 PPK/s and my .22 High Standard Trophy Sport pretty accurately (well the high standard was much much more accurate for me).
A relatively experienced shooter (Glock and CZ shooter) at the range tried out mine and was experiencing similar results. The ranger master had no issues with the firearm. He was a 1911 fan.
On a 11x17 target at 15 yards, if it aimed at the top right corner, I could drift my shots into the middle of the paper.
Wished I had taken my old RIA .45 1911 with me that day and tried it out. I was never that good with it, but also not that bad.
At least I was consistent and getting good groupings.
 

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Throw a snap cap into the magazines at random intervals and see what happens, dry firing when you are expecting a bang can tell you a lot about what might be wrong.
 

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Yeah, low-left is a usually a recoil anticipating flinch. You don't get it with the .22 due to the light recoil.

The snap-caps are a good method. Even better...have that range officer load the snap-caps for you. Then you won't now where they are. You'll notice your flinch when you fire on a snap-cap.
 

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And if possible have someone else load the magazines so you don't know where the snap caps are. Also have that other person video you while shooting.
 

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Sometimes you just gotta walk away from an aggravating issue and take a break.

It can be a very fine line between Anticipation and Memory Detention.
 

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Has the gun ever been benched on sand bags to be sure the sights are on? It's probably you, but I always eliminate the gun first by testing it off sand bags.
 

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1) How are your groups?
2) Shoot from a sand bag and see if that does any good.
 

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If it is the gun and not you then it should still group somewhere on the paper.
if its you it will determine what your faults are and if you repeat them everytime you pull the trigger, if its throwing holes all over the target then its likely shooter error if you are using standard factory ammo.
sliding triggers pull different than rotating triggers, grip thickness/length can make a difference, hand placement as well as recoil.
 

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I second the snap cap exercise. I also load up the Snap caps and practice/get to know the trigger. On a 1911 it slides straight back, not pivot on an axis.
 

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I don't want to sound like a know it all, and if you already know all of this, please excuse me. I teach kids and adults, and one of the hardest things to do is to concentrate on the fundamentals. There are really only 5 fundamentals to making a good shot:

1) Stance
2) Sight alignment
3) Sight picture
4) Trigger Control
5) Follow through

1) Stance. Find a stance that's comfortable to you and use it until you are completely comfortable with the gun. Probably the best standing stance is the isosceles stance. Feet shoulder width apart, lean slightly forward from the waist. I won't go into the whys and long winded explanations as to recoil control etc.

2) Sight alignment. This sounds obvious, but there are some nuances. Consistency is the key. Make sure that your alignment is the same every shot.

3) Sight picture. Rear sight slightly out of focus, target slightly out of focus, front sight sharp focus. The rear sight is only a guide for the front sight. The front sight is the most important part of the entire geometry. If you lose the front sight, you will miss the target. Select a hold and again, stick with it - Center of mass or 6:00. Don't go for the sub 6:00 yet. Again, consistency is the key. Make sure you shoot for the same spot every time. Don't chase holes around the target. Kentucky windage may have worked for Davy Crockett, but it's not a good practice if you want consistency and accuracy.

Now the two most important fundamentals, and the ones I work the hardest to embed in my students.

4) Trigger Control. With a single action, the pad of the last joint in your trigger finger. For a double action, the last joint. Get your stance, get your grip and bring the gun up to your eye, keeping your head straight. Don't hunch your shoulders. Get your sight alignment and picture. Take a normal breath, let about a third of it out and begin to move the trigger rearward. If you can't get the shot off before about 10 seconds, start all over, don't release and pull again without taking a breath. The shot should break and you should be slightly surprised and your sight picture should remain consistent and undisturbed.

5) Follow Through. Trap the trigger rearward for a count of two. Release the trigger at the same speed as you pulled it. If you are shooting a semi, release until the trigger resets - you'll hear a click or feel a snap. The gun is then ready to go again. Don't take your finger completely off the trigger. You engage way too many muscles that you have to reset to get a consistent follow up shot.

If any of those fundamentals are ignored or not done properly, your accuracy will suffer.

I hope this may help you a little. Again, I not an expert by any means, but teaching those fundamentals has made my Shooting Sports kids much better (consistent) shooters.

And the snap cap drill is a fantastic drill to do. What I would do is have someone else load your mags so you don't have any idea when the snap cap is coming.

Good luck.
 

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The 1911 ain't the best ergos ever even if the 1911 fanboys say it is. I never really got used to that skinny grip in my big hands. I never found a wide enough grip, always space between the grip and the palm of my hand. The straight pull trigger is just weird and the thing points terribly. BUT, I got used to the things through practice. They are NOT unshootable, I just prefer other pistols and revolvers for grip ergos. And, heck, it ain't like practice is unpleasant or not fun. I even got good enough to win some pin shoots in our club. It got stolen and I replaced it with a Ruger KP90DC which I much prefer, MUCH better shooter, but I will MAYBE buy another. I mean, what's a handgun collection without a 1911? :D I don't really miss it, though. Insurance covered the Ruger. I never looked back. :D

If you have a problem with the grip, see if you can find some fatter grips. I found that the number one problem with the gun. The grip hit me in the palm and on the fingers and there was this gap around the grip panel. This did not lead to a stable grip.
 
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LOL, well you won't have to worry about that Ruger P90 getting stolen.

The trigger on your 1911, is it breaking hard (high effort)? If it is you might try dry firing with snap caps to somewhat smooth it out and to get to know that trigger better.

Also what weight bullets are you shooting? Heavier bullets tend to hit a bit higher than lighter ones. Also, try different brands and bullet types and weights to see if the gun shows a preference.
 

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The 1911 is a pistol that requires some training to shoot accurately. 1. Feet sholder's width apart. 2. strong hand arm mostly straight with a slight drop. 3. Strong hand light hold and for trigger control. Hard squeeze of the strong hand will cause the gun to dip, right hand low and to left, left hand low to the right. You have to avoid a tight hold with the strong hand. 4. Weak hand wrap the strong hand and use it to put a firm squeeze around the strong hand. In short, strong hand is for trigger control, weak hand for gripping. 5. Concentrate on the front sight and it's location on the target more than focusing on the target, or rear sight as well as keep both eyes open. 6. Last, press the trigger and stop once you feel the release. Do not continue the press after the release. Last, find some training. I learned the 1911 from the age of 16 through 54. The 1911, P9, and CZ75 are the platforms I've shot the longest and the most. I shoot the 1911 better than any other auto, but it is the longest auto I've ever shot. Maloy
 

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I say clamp it down and shoot a group, if tight it's not the gun. Problem solved, onto the trigger puller.
 
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One of my problems shooting low withh my 709 was not understanding how the sights on the Taurus 709's are set up from the factory. If POA is the bulleseye on a target, your front sight will block out your view of the bull. Not sure if all Taurus handgun sights are set up that way. I think they are called Heine sights.
 

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The 1911 ain't the best ergos ever even if the 1911 fanboys say it is. I never really got used to that skinny grip in my big hands. I never found a wide enough grip, always space between the grip and the palm of my hand. The straight pull trigger is just weird and the thing points terribly. BUT, I got used to the things through practice. They are NOT unshootable, I just prefer other pistols and revolvers for grip ergos. And, heck, it ain't like practice is unpleasant or not fun. I even got good enough to win some pin shoots in our club. It got stolen and I replaced it with a Ruger KP90DC which I much prefer, MUCH better shooter, but I will MAYBE buy another. I mean, what's a handgun collection without a 1911? :D I don't really miss it, though. Insurance covered the Ruger. I never looked back. :D

If you have a problem with the grip, see if you can find some fatter grips. I found that the number one problem with the gun. The grip hit me in the palm and on the fingers and there was this gap around the grip panel. This did not lead to a stable grip.
Simonich Gunner grips will fix that too thin issue for you. I think VZ is making them now. They are the grips with the golf ball dimples. I have a pair of the originals and they were so "fat" that I had to grind off some of the back side for them to be comfortable for my hand. The dimples act like suction cups when your hands are wet and really work.

AMT1911LeftView3.JPG
 

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One of my problems shooting low withh my 709 was not understanding how the sights on the Taurus 709's are set up from the factory. If POA is the bulleseye on a target, your front sight will block out your view of the bull. Not sure if all Taurus handgun sights are set up that way. I think they are called Heine sights.

umm?? doesn't your 709 have adjustable rear sight??
now on Most (if not all) Taurus semi with fixed sights then yea they are combat type sights, you place the dot on the center mass and fire.
in combat you are trying to place a round IN the target and it is likely moving or shooting back.
so shooting a 4-5 shot group of 2 inches isn't nearly as good as getting the first and or second shot into the target first.
Hienie sights have one rear dot and one front dot as in the 1911 posted here.
 

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Yeah, low-left is a usually a recoil anticipating flinch. You don't get it with the .22 due to the light recoil.

The snap-caps are a good method. Even better...have that range officer load the snap-caps for you. Then you won't now where they are. You'll notice your flinch when you fire on a snap-cap.
Agree with this also.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
The range marshal was watching me the last time I was at the range and said I was anticipating and jerking it. I just bought a CZ p07 and was getting the same groupings. Odd, with my 357 magnum revolver I was on-target without issue.
 

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The range marshal was watching me the last time I was at the range and said I was anticipating and jerking it. I just bought a CZ p07 and was getting the same groupings. Odd, with my 357 magnum revolver I was on-target without issue.
well with the CZ it IS the gun!
all of mine shoot like crap!-------
 

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