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Discussion Starter #1
I have a Pt 24/7 G2 in 9 mm.

The only issue I ever had with it was just being unfamiliar with how one of it's features was supposed to work:
The cocked indicator does not indicate the gun is cocked until the gun is actually cocked.

Shocker, right? :eek:

Apparently, just racking the slide and putting a round in the chamber ( DA mode) isn't the same as having a cocked gun( SA mode).

Again, Shocker, right? :rolleyes:

So anyways. since that very first time I pulled the trigger, I have put around 2,000 through the chamber. My son has probably put an additional 250 through it.
Not a single issue at all.

I had a PT 809c that I only sold due to it's size , and bought a full size PT 809.

The 809c had around 1,300 rounds put through it without a single issue at all.

I have since bought a brand new PT809 and a M65 that I am almost ashamed to say - I have not fired either one yet. That's 80% due to weather, 20% due to life getting in the way.

I find it strange that some members here have bought guns and they have a failure of some sort within the first 100 rounds. Hell sometimes in the first 30 rounds out of a 50 round box.

Could it be the ammo used? Grain/ Brand? JHP versus FMJ versus Lead?

I mostly practice rapid fire and rapid 3 round bursts. I don't spend too much time taking slow paces single shots. Could that be a difference?

I always clean my brand new guns when I get them home. We get closer to each other that way. :tongue:

I clean using Hoppes #9 and I lube using Rem oil.

I use snap caps a lot. I have squeezed the trigger on my new unfired PT 809 well over 1,000 times so far and just under 500 times on my M65.

Granted, that's not the same as actually firing the gun, but I haven't experienced any cylinder lock op, binding, or bearing wear.



So, what's the issue? Are some models just more prone to failure? I read more about the TCP and 111's having issues than any other model?
Is it just because there are more bought and sold, thus having a higher amount owned equals a higher amount of issued posted?

Or maybe it's a lower grade of gun. Say, like the TCP's and 111's being Chevettes as compared to the 24/7 and 809's being Corvettes?

Maybe it's a medium duty design being shot as a heavy duty design?


I don't know. I just know that I have shot the hell out of some of my Taurus guns without any issues, and have worked the parts on others ( snap caps) and can't feel any issues on them either.
 

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The 809 is a really nifty pistol - got to shoot one at the Rapid City meet last September when the Taurus crew brought one for us to test fire! I can't have one of my own due to the mag capacity, living in the crab pot of Maryland as we do. Hope you get to shoot your 809 soon - you are going to really like it!!

Regarding good luck/bad luck with firearms -I guess it really is luck sometimes! Are you lucky enough to get the one that was made on a Wednesday, rather than a Monday or Friday - or some such thing as that! I have had great luck with some and not so good luck with others ..and not just Taurus products, either.
 

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Oops, my bad! I was expecting something different.

Jessica_rabbit.png
 
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I think some of the gun problems are do to the huge amount of new shooters buying their first guns. I have been surprised how many folks don;t have a clue how to maintain their firearms. So many I have worked on ( I only do my gunsmithing reports on the unusual ones I have worked on ) are just dirty or shot till they mess up because of poor preventative maintenance. What also surprises me , even after I explain how important it is to do regular inspections and maintenance, is most folks just kinda blow me off. But also almost all manuf's produce a lemon now and then - that is just the way of things.
 

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In my opinion Taurus seems to have 3 major problem firearms. Most of their guns work as designed from the box but 3 models in particular are mentioned over and over as having issues on this forum and from others I talk to locally. They are pretty much any new 22LR revolver, from the 970, 990, 991, etc. Second is the TCP. It has been notorious for having issues from simple easy to fix problems to exploding in someones hand. Thirdly the PT111 G2 seems to be problematic. Sure, other models have some issues here and there but for the most part all other models are reliable with an occasional lemon here and there or small issue. Of the 3 problem models I mentioned, I have also heard of people buying them and them being problem free from day one and never experiencing any issues. My major beef is hearing that someone has sent in the same gun 3 or 4 times for repair. When you make a purchase of anything and it requires service, it needs to be fixed right the first time. Each time it goes back the company loses money. If they want to increase profits, they need to step up quality control, customer service and aftermarket accessories. When you can't even get replacement grips for your gun from the manufactures website or a hat to show your loyalty, the company is spending too much on the CEOs and not enough on the workers. Whether this is due to training or driving down moral by reducing benefits, the end result is the same. Henry Ford proved that a long time ago.
Just my opinion.
Rick
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Now, it could be that some of the guns that are sent back more than once over time - are due to user error.

Example of this is my old high school principal. Great guy, friendly, very professional at his job abd commanded a lot of respect. But the man would just kill a car engine.

We would rebuild his car engine at least once a year in automechanics class. Every time it died, and we tore it down, it had thick sludge in the bottom of the oil pan and thick burnt oil residue on the end of the dipstick, the valve stems, and various intgernal parts of the engine. You could smell it when you got within 10 foot of the car. You could smell that hot ozonish metal smell any time you got near the cat if it had been running within the last hour.

No, wasn't us, new oil pump every time just to be safe. Always sent block off to get bored or just polished( we did everything but turn the crank, turn the cam and polish or bore the block).

The man was just hard on an engine. Heavy foot, loved his AC and didn't change the fluids like he was supposed to.

So, could be some people just don't maintain their gun and clean it like they should/ Maybe buy +p or +p+ rounds when they shouldn't or maybe they have afriend who they talked into reloading some rounds a little extra hot for them?
 
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Mass producing identical items, doesn't always mean identical items are produced. Guitars are a good example. You can take 100 guitars, made on the same day at the same factory...all identical in every way. Chances are....40 will sound good, 30 will sound really good, another 29 of 'em will sound freakin' awesome but then there's that one...the one that just blows 'em all away. I find that with tools too. I may have several wrenches of the same type and by the same mfgr but there's always one that fits better, just feels better than the others. Everything's a crap shoot.
 

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I have a theory, but I could be way off. Both of the Taurus guns I have bought recently, have come coated in some form of petrolium, that I suspect may have come strait from a T-Rex's nether regions. (My Remington's were even worse.) This stuff is not just on the outside but all in and out. It requires a serious "Deep clean" I break mine down, remove the grips then spray'em down with Action cleaner before I take a toothbush to them. This has worked really well for me. The only serious problem is now my toothbrush taste a little funny and I can't seam to get the darn pink dragon out of the bathroom.
 

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I have a theory, but I could be way off. Both of the Taurus guns I have bought recently, have come coated in some form of petrolium, that I suspect may have come strait from a T-Rex's nether regions. (My Remington's were even worse.) This stuff is not just on the outside but all in and out. It requires a serious "Deep clean" I break mine down, remove the grips then spray'em down with Action cleaner before I take a toothbush to them. This has worked really well for me. The only serious problem is now my toothbrush taste a little funny and I can't seam to get the darn pink dragon out of the bathroom.
Yeap, a good complete cleaning FIRST helps a lot. You may want to dedicate a toothbrush for gun cleaning, but it's ok to still use the #9 mouthwash.
 

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Yeap, a good complete cleaning FIRST helps a lot. You may want to dedicate a toothbrush for gun cleaning, but it's ok to still use the #9 mouthwash.
A bore-snake works great, but you might have to add about 30 foot to the pull cord.
 

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I vote Suzanne Pleshette
Models are just too skinny. If you can hear their bones clacking together and a size zero is loose on them, that's just eeeewww!
 
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My theory is its not really as big of a problem as we think. Thousands of each model go out every year. If by chance someone gets a lemon, the first thing theywant do is tell everyone how much it sucks. You get a good one and you have no need to rant and proprobably aren't going to post up how awesome it is until someone asks about it. So for every bad one there's probably hundreds or even thousands that are just fine. Perhaps a bad production run that slips by once in a while. But that's my thought.




Oh and we know I don't like plastic so we will go ahead and blame that too:D
 

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I tend to believe that 75% of it comes from new shooters who aren't versed in cleaning and maintaining a firearm. They don't realize that they need to clean it from the first second that they own it., they see too many shows and movies where the guy tosses in a magazine, racks the slide and that's the extent of their gun knowledge. Another 15% I would chalk up to ammunition problems, another 5% are problems that are caused by someone complaining about a trigger that doesn't feel like their Ruger or Springfield, with the remaining 5% actually being problems with the gun itself. Now 5% failure rate isn't something that any corporation would want for it's product, but it's better than it was just a decade ago.
 

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Most firearms manufacturers aim for a 6 Sigma defect rating. That means 1 defect per 1 million opportunities. Though it may sound like a minuscule number of defects, there may be as many as 5000 opportunities per firearm. That means 1 fault per 200 firearms. Suddenly 6 sigma isn't all that impressive. Granted, the vast majority of defects aren't going to impact functionality, there may be the occasional defect that does hinder the operation of the firearm. Now look at how many firearms a company like Taurus produces and you'll see that the real critical issues are few and far between. But like everything else, 10,000 good things will be overshadowed by 1 bad thing. It's the 1 bad thing we hear about constantly by those who have unreal expectations and want to cause harm to the company because they weren't catered to by a manufacturer.
 

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My theory is its not really as big of a problem as we think.
My thoughts exactly. You always hear from the few that have or had problems. Rarely from the many that never have or had any issues whatsoever.
Rick
 
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