Taurus Firearm Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am posting this ONLY for FYI value......NOT by way of complaint. I understand the phenomenon and it's NOT typical operation of the gun - but it MIGHT help to explain the trigger reset issue that I've heard a few people have had with the 800 series guns.

I should say that I discovered this by accident, during a session of dry firing practice.

What I discovered is that, if you pull the trigger PART of the way, in DOUBLE action mode, then stop......then cock the hammer all the way (with your finger/ thumb), while holding the trigger in the same position at which you stopped....THEN lower the hammer, using the trigger to release it.....the trigger will STOP part way through it's travel.....and NOT reset, unless you push it forward to intentionally reset it. It does not even reset into single action mode - it becomes inactive. This happens every time on my PT-845.
It does NOT happen, that is, the trigger resets just fine, if the hammer is cocked manually.....then lowered manually.

I know that the description (above) is a mouthful, but I hope that it's clear. The point of this is that is IS possible to defeat the normal operation of the trigger on the 800 series guns. Every owner/ user of the 800 series guns SHOULD be AWARE of this. It does NOT however, lead to a reasonable conclusion that the trigger group design is defective in some way. Not at all. In fact, I believe that this is a manifestation or side effect of the "second strike" capability of the trigger group. Essentially, performing the actions described above "confuses" the mechanism, so that the trigger doesn't reset.....in that ONE circumstance. I cannot see a normal operational scenario in which this would come up, except by pure accident. In any event, the "problem" can be corrected simply by pushing the trigger forward, whereupon it will reset to the double action position.....with no harm to the action of the gun.

The lesson to be learned here is, I think, that one should NOT short-stroke the 800 series guns (in double action mode). If intending to fire the gun in double action, pull the hammer ALL the way through to the stop. If necessary, practice this as part of dry firing practice until it is 2nd nature. As for myself, I prefer to thumb cock the hammer and use single action mode, as I like the trigger feel much more in single action. However, in a SD situation, this might not be possible, so one should NOT count on that as a standard tactic for SD situations.

If anyone has any questions about this, I'll try to answer them. Bear in mind that, I am NOT an expert on the 800 series. As I said, I found this by accident......and I thought it important to pass on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,853 Posts
The good news is that you are spending time with your pistol and getting to know it's personality for better and worse. Thanks for sharing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
703 Posts
I just tried it out... It does indeed malfunction when you do what you described.

I love my PT809, but I think a weakness of this design is how sensitive the trigger bar is to friction and fouling where it is linked to the sear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,559 Posts
Maybe I am dense here and don't get it, but it doesn't seem lime you are replicating a "short stroke" by manipulating the hammer and trigger in a way that doesn't seem possible, in my limited experience. I understand if people short stroke while shooting and the trigger doesn't reset. But it seems to me by manipulating the hammer manually during the trigger pull it isn't the same thing. Its like the video the guy posted on the "defective TCP" last week where the guy was monkeying with the trigger pull to intentionally cause a malfunction. His actions weren't in any way possible during a normal course of fire, but he screwed around long enough until he caused the trigger not to reset and then cried "defect". I understand the OP isn't doing that, but it just seems to me like messing around long enough doing actions that wont really occur "in nature" from just shooting, is kind of pointless.

Its like when I broke the spindle on my riding lawn mower a couple years ago doing something that wasn't supposed to be done. I ran over some big rocks and a stump, and for some reason the defective spindle just snapped.

I don't mean to come across as a jerk, I just don't monkey around with things in a unnatural way to figure out what it takes for them to break.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
703 Posts
I don't think this malfunction will occur under live fire conditions, because all it takes is a little vibration (e.g. tapping the side of the pistol) to free the trigger bar.

In the same way, when using the decocker (instead of easing the hammer down), the action is rather sharp, and that avoid this problem too IMO.

If the link between the trigger bar and the sear, and the ledge of the frame it slides on, is not properly cleaned, you can get trigger reset problems during dry fire (both DA & SA). Never failed on me during live fire though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
I tried this also with my 809 but couldn't replicate the malfunction. I'm guessing the reason that this is happening to some people is the failure of the firing pin plunger to keep the trigger bar up during the pull. I modified mine to increase the reliability of the spring so I can't replicate the malfunction. Also I'm running around 3 lbs on SA so the smooth action might be the reason my trigger resets when I try to make it malfunction.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
I dont see this as a problem that would ever come up when using the gun normally. Who is going to pull the trigger halfway, hold it there while pulling the hammer back then letting the hammer down???...its a non-issue. Its a great gun and wasnt designed for that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
When I pull the slide back, let go and pull the trigger in single action mode it goes bang. If I lower the hammer with the decocker and pull the trigger in double action mode it goes bang...Im happy;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I dont see this as a problem that would ever come up when using the gun normally. Who is going to pull the trigger halfway, hold it there while pulling the hammer back then letting the hammer down???...its a non-issue. Its a great gun and wasnt designed for that.


I SAID that I couldn't see this as an issue that would ever occur during normal operation of the gun. I also SAID that it does NOT mean that the gun is defective. No need to get your shorts in a wad. I only posted this info (as I said) for FYI purposes - because it pays to know every aspect of your gun's operation and it's eccentricities. Especially if one intends to use the 800 series for SD. Would any of you guys rather NOT know such things ?

Again, in case anyone missed it...... the gun IS NOT DEFECTIVE......and I AM NOT SAYING THAT IT IS. Geez.

Really, the reason that I posted this info was to perhaps counter some of the people who MIGHT run into this issue (or some similar trigger reset issue).....and then whine that their gun is "broken".....or needs to go back to Miami for repair, etc. That is obviously NOT the case.

Upon reflection and after a close examination of the mechanism of my 845, I have begun to have a feeling that this MIGHT just be a BREAK-IN issue. If so, it well might go away. Even if not, since it has nothing to do with normal operation of the gun - I still have confidence in the pistol. I'll report my "findings" on this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Your thread title is...How to make your PT845 trigger malfunction. The trigger can only malfunction if it fails to do what its designed to...it wasnt designed to do what your talking about. Relax chief.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
I like your quote at the bottom of your posts though..."Nothing is ever fixed by breaking it"...not even an PT845:p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,559 Posts
Your thread title is...How to make your PT845 trigger malfunction. The trigger can only malfunction if it fails to do what its designed to...it wasnt designed to do what your talking about. Relax chief.
Thanks for spelling it out in less words than I used. Well said.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,713 Posts
Thank you, I will never replicate the actions you describe but it is interesting to read. It especially interests me how many people get their pantys in a bunch over any particular topic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
OK. Now let's put this to rest. After a second range session.....and now a little over 200 rounds through the pistol.....the trigger reset "phenomenon" (I never really considered it a problem - but others seemed to get all upset that I would even mention such a thing)....has disappeared. Now, the trigger resets every time, no matter the test regimen.

The trigger has also gotten a bit smoother.

So, obviously, this phenomenon was simply a break-in issue. Probably a small burr somewhere, which has now gone.

End of story, as far as I'm concerned.
 

·
Moderator in Memorium 1940-2014
Joined
·
13,540 Posts
I hate to sound like I'm flaming anyone but the original post strikes me as useless.
And then the poster uses the phrase "The point of this is that is IS possible to defeat the normal operation of the trigger on the 800 series guns. "
Well... yeah. And it is possible to defeat the normal operation of any piece of machinery by using it in ways for which it was never intended.
 

·
Member Emeritus 1946-2018
Joined
·
35,996 Posts
When I pull the slide back, let go and pull the trigger in single action mode it goes bang. If I lower the hammer with the decocker and pull the trigger in double action mode it goes bang...Im happy;)
Yep...that's what they are supposed to do. :thumb:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
I hate to sound like I'm flaming anyone but the original post strikes me as useless.
And then the poster uses the phrase "The point of this is t, for informationalhat is IS possible to defeat the normal operation of the trigger on the 800 series guns. "
Well... yeah. And it is possible to defeat the normal operation of any piece of machinery by using it in ways for which it was never intended.


Ah, another "I don't mean to flame anyone.....but here come the flames" poster. If you didn't find the thread useful, then why read it ? You obviously read more than just the opening post. Since you found the need to comment, it really sounds as if your intent WAS in fact to "flame" me. So, you're actually being dishonest in that, aren't you ? Whatever, as they say.

I'm sure that this thread is "useless"....for those who wish to define it that way. Is it as useless, though, as the myriad of threads on this forum that consist of something like "I just got a new XYZ-999 and I love it !!! It's sooooo cool !!!" ??? Followed by lots of answers consisting of "Congratulations, dude ! That new XYZ-999 is really cool !!! How 'bout some pictures ?" Blah, blah, blah.

I started this thread, as I stated in the FIRST post, for informational reasons....as I thought it useful to KNOW one's firearm. I guess I overestimated the interest and curiosity of some of the membership here. Evidently, some of you find it too much of a challenge to know anything outside of the realm of "normal". Oh well. Too bad - I pity you and your lack of intellectual curiosity. I can't really say, though, that I am surprised.
 

·
Moderator in Memorium 1940-2014
Joined
·
13,540 Posts
If you feel you were flamed then I suppose you were flamed - at least in your own mind. I doubt any words I could now write would change that so I won't even try.

You say you started the thread for informational purposes and I read it looking for information because I own a PT845 and I like informational threads.

But if I read on a Chevy forum how it was possible to make the Malibu malfunction by driving it with only three wheels or by running it into a brick wall, I would consider my time spent reading the post as possibly entertaining but less than useful in teaching me anything about the automobile.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
693 Posts
All I know is that my 809 has a trigger reset issue that occurs during a dry fire or a failure to fire, where one would expect the gun to reset itself to DA. This occurs with no unusual or unconventional manipulation of the trigger or hammer or both. It's beginning it's 3rd week in Miami and I'm anxious to get it because because I freakin' love it, despite this issue. I'll update everyone when it comes home.

My point is that there's definitely something to reset issues in the 800 series that I'm seeing more and more threads about.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top