[balde]

gave my pt a real good good cleaning recently and decided not to cover it in grease and just used rem oil to lube it up and noticed it was extreemly noisy and loose! i also noticed it was wearing on the frame slide a bit, just wasnt sure if theres anything taurus could do bout tightening up the tolerances on this gun. is this common with taurus's? u can actually see light thru the gaps as shown on the pics and theres alot of play in the slide. im sure itll cause exsessive wear and at what count will it just fall apart or lock up when im firing it....

 

[RevolverFan]

Other PT1911 owners will have to chime in, but the one that I handled had a nice, tight lockup -- and it was a used pistol.......

 

[dbeardslee]

Every 1911 I've ever owned loosened up a bit with use. It's not necessarily a bad thing - somewhat looser tolerances are common in combat firearms. It's part of the reason they tolerate mud, crud, and debris and keep on shooting. The really important part of the lockup is the barrel to slide lockup - you don't want that to move at all. As far as seeing light around the ejector - you can pretty much do that with all of them. If it's shooting and cycling properly I wouldn't worry about a little slop in the slide to frame fit.

 

[45 Forever]

I have one of the first year production 1911's and I just took it out and after clearing it and leaving all ammo in the bedroom I brought it out into my living room to play with it to see if I can reproduce your pics. No light what so ever except on slide lock back. Yours looks like it has the slide forward. My gun has no rattle or other then a slight slide movement with my hands moving it at cocked and locked it is tight as it should be. The movement is in thousands of an inch on my gun, my 1911 is a vary well made 1911 for a first year run. I would contact Taurus about yours it seems to have to much play and thats my opinion. You could also take it to a local gun Smith to have it looked at before shipping it back. Good luck. Its one of my favorite guns and I use it almost as much as my XD-9 as I have RA in my hands. I do keep it loaded and in a locked drawer as a back up to my carry gun if I'm not carrying it. I'm a big 1911 fan and trust this gun with my life. Good luck Taurus contact info 1-800-327-3776

 

[dbeardslee]

No light what so ever except on slide lock back.

Try shining a light into the barrel while you look at the back. When you look past the ejector from the rear you're looking directly through the barrel - which is where the light comes from. It's gotta have a little room around the ejector or it would be dragging on the slide. If you've got a round or a snap cap in the barrel you won't see the light. As far as rattles - you'll pretty much always get a rattle in series 80 1911's if you shake them back and forth due to the firing pin block levers. You won't get that rattle in series 70 pistols because they don't have the levers. Course that's not the same as a rattle coming from the slide...

 

[45 Forever]

I would trust dbeardslee, He has more experience than I do as well as a few others Grey wolf is one of them. I still believe you have more play then other 1911's but I would have to handle it to make a better observation.

 

[dbeardslee]

I would have to handle it to make a better observation.

I'll go along with that. The area I was really looking at in the pics is right where the frame and slide rails meet, and it looks pretty tight there. As much as you can tell from a picture anyway. If it's really a big concern the safest thing to do is to get an opinion from a qualified gunsmith. Even if all they do is say "looks fine to me" it will help your peace of mind index to go up.

 

[TexasAviator]

I'm with db and 45 its hard to say without holding it. If it is enough to worry you then like they side, a decent smith should be able to take a look at it and tell you if its good.

As to rattles in general, I've shot old combat 1911's used in WWII they rattled a bit but still hit their targets.

Edit: I just realized I meant to say and forgot to: My PT 1911 as well as other 1911's I have shot over the years look similar to your photos, but again without holding it its hard to say. The wear you mentioned could be the fact that its just a metal on metal design. Thats what oil or grease is for, the parts do rub. If its gets bad you should know, if its just a bit of wear on the finish on the rails I wouldn't worry. Thats just my opinion I'm no smith here, if it worries you get it looked at, nothing wrong with being cautious!

 

[Laker]

I just went and got mine out. With the slide locked back I can see light similar to what your pictures show. Mine runs great!

 

[cuban]

Looser is always better with a fighting gun like the 1911

The ejector should be smaller then the it"s slot, it does nothing pertaining to shooting tighter groups you should be able to see light coming through from the barrel.

Even though now a days most people prefer a tighter frame to slide fit (Kimber 500 round break in) it also contributes to lose of reliability, the old GI 1911 of the world wars were real lose because they took in to consideration that mud and dirt would find it's way into the rails and they needed the guns to function period!! under all types of environment, now what tightens up your groups is the relationship between you barrel and bushing, in this case it's also a juggling act to tight will cause malfunction when the barrel tilts while recoiling, and to lose will produce poor accuracy, I think that the PT1911 has found that perfect balance with a tighter slide rails to frame fit, and the thicker ring around the front of the barrel allowing for the barrel to tilt and at the same time providing a tight fit (air gaged bushing), Try inserting a full magazine into your pistol and see if some of the rattle goes away.

Now if you notice that your groups are spread to far apart, I would recommend you replace your bushing with a EGW barrel bushing, you will need to measure the ID of the front of your slide and the OD of the front barrel ring thats unique to the PT1911, and provide this information to EGW and they will make you a custom barrel bushing tailored to you pistol, even though I don't think you will be able to tell much difference unless you ransom rest your the gun. Just relax and enjoy your gun and don't worry, the PT1911 basher don't know what the hell thier talking about.

 

[texastaurusguy]

Seems like I read a story somewhere about a special branch of the military that ordered 100 Kimbers and after putting them through their paces, sent them back to Kimber. The guns were too tight and wouldn't function correctly when introduced into dirty, gritty, muddy conditions. I think there is a real fine line here - the 1911 runs just fine loose, but like any gun, accuracy gets better when parts are fitted nicely. Personally I think I'd rather have it a little loose, so it runs optimally in many conditions.

 

[olfarhors]

well in reality I would say that TOO Loose would be when you could remove the slide from the frame simply by pulling "UP" on it-LOL
I have seen and shot old war model 1911's that were so loose that you actually would think you could pull the slide off them.
does the pistol lock up nice and tight?
thats what counts when its in battery and ready to fire.
I would lean on a losser gun than a tight fitting gun if i was using it for carry/ home defense/car defense, now if i were shooting targets then I would want it about as tight as could be as long as it did not seize upon use.
In reality while the PT1911 is a well made gun if you want ultra tight tolerances then you need a baer, brown, Dan Wesson, etc, just go on and skip the cheap Kimbers (oK not bashing) but Kimber certainly is not the bench mark for a top quality 1911.
of course with these super man made 1911's come the problems of extended break in, super tight chamber tolerances and super high prices.
I know that all my 1911's are safe and capable of shooting much better than i can, that includes those POS Taurus, RIA as well as the Colt and Para's, they all just work for me and if I really want to be cheered up i take my Pt1911 SS in 38 Super to the range for a big all day smile.

 

[balde]

thanks for the input! it does shoot decent and the barrel to slide are fairly snug, but when i grip the rail, the frame does move left to right, same when i grip the gun properly, i can move the front of the slide from side to side. just cant seent to get nice tight groups from it either...average 5"@25yd, 3-4 of the 8 shot are good ,the rest fly off. but not one ftf or fte with over 600shot!! flawless!!
the pics are of it with the slide closed. the smith i showed it to did agreed that it had alot of play with no good suggestions but to buy a new gun from him! he's not really a taurus fan to begin with and all about makin a buck so... i know if its heavely grease it quites right down. ill just keep lubin&shootin it and if it gets any looser ill just send it in, seems like the gold finish is coming off on the safety and beavertail, maybe they'll refinish it for me. kinda like if they over buffed it down too much.

 

[Montkun]

As for the light over the ejector, my RIA is the exact same way without a round chambered. My slide doesn't have any side to side play to speak of really, but i can move the barrel forward and back a tiny bit whether it's loaded or unloaded. Not really any up and down or left to right movement in the bushing, just the tiny bit of forward and backwards which i think is more due to the barrel lug than anything else. 1911's by nature are a "loose" gun as others have said, mostly due to it's combat usage. IMO, give me a "loose" 1911 that functions reliably than a "tight" one that has the potential to bind up and lock on me when i need it.

 

[dbeardslee]

thanks for the input! it does shoot decent and the barrel to slide are fairly snug, but when i grip the rail, the frame does move left to right, same when i grip the gun properly, i can move the front of the slide from side to side. just cant seent to get nice tight groups from it either...average 5"@25yd, 3-4 of the 8 shot are good ,the rest fly off. but not one ftf or fte with over 600shot!! flawless!!

How many rounds do you have through it? My Para would pitch a couple fliers with every group when it was new. It was really bugging me at first - on a couple of occasions I was actually looking at a perfect sight picture and saw the holes open up way off my point of aim. Once it was well broken in (around 500 rounds of jacketed ammo - more with non jacketed rounds) it quit throwing the fliers, and it groups them nice and tight now. You'll rarely get the best accuracy right out of the box. I think part of the reason is because some of the parts need to wear together, and the bore itself will not usually be perfectly smooth. The first four or five hundred rounds you fire will basically debur the barrel, the slide and frame will wear together, and accuracy will improve. You can help the process along by lapping the barrel after you've got three hundred or so rounds through it.

In the original post the question was asked "at what count will it just fall apart or lock up when im firing it...." You can reasonably expect a 1911 to shoot well into the hundreds of thousands of rounds - one friend of mine put 25,000 rounds through his in a single summer! That's not to say you can't experience some parts issues, but it's hard to find a pistol that will outlast a 1911.

 

[stallard]

As to grouping,
With the right ammo my PT1911 will shoot 2.5" 25yard groups but it will throw the first round about 1.5" high left. I have found many semi autos to have similar problems with the first "hand loaded" round but shoot fine with the rest that are "self loaded". If I am bench rest testing one for accuracy I will shoot the first round off target and then shoot for groups.

 

[dbeardslee]

As to grouping,
With the right ammo my PT1911 will shoot 2.5" 25yard groups but it will throw the first round about 1.5" high left. I have found many semi autos to have similar problems with the first "hand loaded" round but shoot fine with the rest that are "self loaded". If I am bench rest testing one for accuracy I will shoot the first round off target and then shoot for groups.

With rifles a cold barrel shot is always a little off on elevation - which is one reason I think snipers with their 'one shot one kill' sop are so impressive. Never noticed it with pistols before, but it wouldn't surprise me. Now you've got me curious - gonna have to give it a try.