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Hi,

I was doing draw and shoot speed drills yesterday with my Rossi M68.

The targets were simple 8.5x11" sheets of paper on an old tomato stick.

I noticed a couple problems.

Before I go further, I know the revolver's accurate. In SA slow fire, I can make a can dance around at 25yds.

At speed though, it's different.

I was shooting 5-7yds. The drill was to walk away from the target, turn and draw from the pocket, and fire. I would fire between waist and chest level.

Hits were 4/5 with my left hand (dominant hand) and 3/5 with my right hand. Both eyes were open. I had to work a bit harder with my right hand, but this is to be expected.

The real eye opener was when I used my two handed aimed hold. I did no better than when I did the point shooting with my dominant hand!

I think I need some remedial practice, perhaps with wadcutters.

Also, the sights are not what I'm used to - I would consider them vestigial at best. Same as on earlier S&W J-frames. I keep wanting to raise the muzzle so I can see the front blade.

Besides

practice

practice

practice

is there any other snubby shooting tricks? How fast should one be able to shoot one of these things with 158gr standard pressure practice loads, and are there any new grip methods for revolvers out there? I use the "thumbs curled down on the grip, overlapping" hold for revolvers and I have always found that to be a hindrance to my shooting. I much prefer thumbs pointing forward.

I bought this with the idea that it would be a "bad breath backup" handgun, and that's still its main mission. But I'd like to improve to one hole at 5-7yds with aimed fire. I'm sure I can improve my point shooting and indexed fire with a bit more practice (I've not been doing enough of it).

Tips, tricks, etc. are welcome. And, what kind of groups should I be "shooting for?"

Thanks,

Josh <><
 

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Well, since you are shooting a snubbie and using self defense tactics I am presuming that you are going to use the gun for concelaed carry, correct? Consider that as a concealed weapon, your primary goal is to be able to hit a BG in the vitals each time you pull the trigger. If you mis 3 out of 5 times, then that's 2 wasted shots that may end up hitting an innocent bystander. Practce until you can get all five shots into an area the size of a small man's chest, which is probably slightly larger than 8.5 x 11" Also consider the distance at which you are shooting. 5-7 yards seems about right for personl defense training, so you should have that covered. Of course, once you get better with the gun, you might need to try backing up a little to get proficient at 10 yards. Anything beyond that is probably not needed (could be argued one way or the other I suppose).

With my Smith and Wesson 642, which is my primary carry gun, I can put all 5 rounds in a 8.5 x11" sheet at 7 yards. I am working on getting better at longer distances. When it comes to this kind of practice, I believe that having a SMOOTH draw is more important than having a FAST draw. Speed will come with time if you can draw smoothly.

Todd
 

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I see that I'm not the only person who uses computer paper for targets. For the same reasons, too. Also I'm a cheapskate.
I have some "real" targets, but only use them when I'm having a particularly good sesson.
 

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or paper plates,if you can hit 4 out of 5 @5-7 yards i would concider that ok,dont forget you cant practice someone shooting at you or scared stiff shooting so as you say practice then practice somemore
 

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Working with a couple of LE range officers, I learned to improve my grip (two-handed) and it made a big difference in my efficiency (4/5 in rapid point shoot).

This is with a 3" 605.
 

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Hard to imagine a real world situation where you would engage at more than ten yards. That being said, knowing you can hit past that is only butter on the bread.
 

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Maybe purchase a .22 for practice?

I think snubbies are difficult to point shoot at those distances because the barrel angles up and away from the trigger finger which is your natural pointer.

So, yes practice, practice, practice, and a .22 snubby may permit you to get a lot more rounds in, cost wise, and save wear and tear on your primary.

And I would, if it were mine, install lighter springs that still give 100% reliability and wouldn't make the trigger too light for pocket carry.
 

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Model 85s are very useful. Dedication to shooting these harder to shoot revolvers over their bigger brethren is needed. But they offer some advantages over pistols.

Simple manual of arms,easier to grasp when drawing from pocket or holster(don't make me quote Mas Ayoob,Clint Smith,Chuck Karwan, or Chuck Taylor on this ) and it's always there for carry anywhere one goes, when the bigger gun is in the locker at home. Can shoot through pockets if it's a CH or shrouded model without jamming. Have to practice this very carefully if possible and where one can. Too easy to shoot one's self or others. I use snap caps.

Long range accuracy to 50 or 100 yards can be amazing for many different brands, makes, and models of snubbies.

It has been documented well back a decade or two ago, that anyone with a snubbie is still a dangerous opponent out to some rifle range distances. There were a number of cases where snubbie wielding criminals were shot and killed at over 25 yards,closer to 50 yards or more. LEOs and civilians were taken to court or to the grand jury level.

It was proven without a doubt the accuracy and threat that a snubbie armed person was at rifle ranges approaching and up to 100 yards. Even a little beyond that.
Courts and grand juries were shown physically at the ranges and on video the snubbie's and the shooter's capabilities.

While a majority of criminals are not going to be that accurate or practice to hit at long distance there were enough cases where criminals had shot at 50- 100 yards and severely hurt or killed others with short barreled revolvers.

Thus the LEOs and civilians in all these cases were given clean records and exonerated of any wrong doing.
Major precedent for those who have to defend themselves against criminals bearing short barreled revolvers being shot at long range has been around for quite a while.

Granted, most owners of snubbies are not going to go practice or have to use their snubs at 50 or more yards. It happens enough to have to consider though.

In several recent( make that last year or so) there have been cases in Combat Handguns or police and tactical journals on just such documented cases where this has happened in recent years.

Also has been documented where civilians and LEOs had only a snub revolver and had to go up against rifle toting thugs. No back up was near by and something had to be done as people were being shot. Said civilian or off duty LEO went, engaged the perp or perps, and won.

Doesn't mean one just runs off into a situation. But for moral reasons these responders had a plan,knew how to shoot at extended ranges, and saved others and themselves from great harm or death.

Not everybody is going to make this kind of commitment to the snub nor is it expected. Nor can one practice at gun ranges at these extended ranges. Just for consideration.
 

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Joshua M. Smith said:
The targets were simple 8.5x11" sheets of paper on an old tomato stick.


Hits were 4/5 with my left hand (dominant hand) and 3/5 with my right hand. Both eyes were open. I had to work a bit harder with my right hand, but this is to be expected.

Josh <><
While you're practicing, figure some way of having bigger paper or plywood or something. Maybe buy a roll of shipping paper? Or tape more sheets together? That way you can see where the misses are going and correct them much more quickly.

JimL
 

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The idea of a larger field, sure helped me to figure out where my astray round were going. I used large sheet of cardboard, and put the target just above center. I found that I was shooting low and to the left, with the PT111, High and slightly left with the Judge 6.5". After about 300 rounds of 9mm, I got it down to all on the 8.5 by 11 printed target for each clip. That was at 10 yards, with the PT111, and about 2.5 inches on the Judge.

I still was not happy, so I am not practicing my sighting, and trigger pull with a 22LR/22m single action revolver that I bought today. Today I got 2 to 3 inch patterns, but am still a little left, but on at least one round, I put 3 out of 6 in the center circle.

It is a lot cheaper, and does not burn up as much ammo when you have to load every 6. I just wish I had someone here to shoot with to watch what the heck I am doing wrong with the PT111.

I did try video of a couple dry fire sessions, but without rounds going down range I could not tell much. Yep, more practice each day that it does not rain or snow and I hope to improve with the 9mm.

Get help if available, from the range master, or a shooting friend. My son who is a retired LE, is gone for a month so I have to work on it myself.
 
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