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What are the draw backs ( if any) to using a hollow point? Suppose I shoot through glass..will this damage the round from hitting the glass and cause it to miss the target or go some place else? IOW's , they are not good for going through stuff if you target is on the other side yes? The reason I'm asking is because if that is the case, I'm wondering if just going with a metal slug (or something else) for self defence would be better.
 

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http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=723.0

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=1603.0

This should help some what.

Never use hardball of any kind for self defense unless mandated by state or local laws. Hardball of any kind, even at low velocity, will and can overpenetrate the target you shoot. This is with still enough energy in any caliber to kill or cause grave bodily harm to bystanders. This has been documented thoroughly by Mas Ayoob, Chuck Taylor, Ed Sanow, Even Marshall, Chuck Karwan, Dr.Daniel Topper, and a host of other knowledegeable people in the field to know this.

Much reserach by the ammo companies and patholigists has gone directly into this.

The newer generations of JHP put out by all the commercial ammo makers will go through glass and hold together just fine and get the job done. They were designed to do this and to retain weight and mass. JHPs retard expansion for the most part until flesh or something similar is hit.
Yes there may be some deformation of the bullet, but they still get the job done.

Hardball or round nosed ammo will bounce of hard targets more often because of it's rounded nose profile. This includes skulls,walls, and other hard surfaces.

JHPs are more likely not to ricochet and penetrate because the JHP nose has more of a tendency to bite into the target.

There are Corbon Powerball and Federal EFMJW rounds if needed for hardball only restricted zones.These were designed in different ways to expand similar to JHPs, but just in different mannors. CB PowerBall is actually a JHP with a ball in the nose to help feed through all pistols and to supposedly help expansion. Both Federal and Corbon's loads do work as advertised.
Just for info purposes, and I do not care who's ox gets gored by this, the Thompson -Legarde tests and Julian Hatcher Principles have been discredited as far as real world applications are concerned for ammo defense purposes.

Hatcher's ideas do work with round nosed or hardball ammo and do not work for JHPs at all.

Thompson-Legarde tests shot a few beaves(cattle to the rest of you folks) with no scientific or testing criterea that could be established. Some of the animals shot, the few that were shot, were shot multiple times and with the same or different calibers.

The 7.63 Mauser did an actual better job of putting the cattle down than did the .45ACP at the time.

The cattle shot were shot in completly different places with each shot and never the same place on different cattle.

The idea was to prove that the large calibers were superior to mid bores or smaller ones.

When one has already decided that what the results are going to be and the agenda kept, even in the face of desputing evidence, no data from these so called tests can be considered valid.

Fuzzy Wuzzies, Zulus, Moros of the Phillipines, and other fanactical warriors of the past, or the ones today are, or were impressed not impressed by handgun, massed rifle fire, or even shotgun buchshot. They all managed to overcome multiple hits and still kill or horribly wound and cripple before expiring. This has all been documented well, by the survivors and historians of these battles.

Todays criminals on drugs, adrenalin dumps, liquor, or " on a mission", will not be impressed by the above mentioned firearms as well. We can not know the mindset of the criminal or criminals when a defense shooting happens. No two situations or people are alike in these scenarios.
Hollywood and show biz gun fights are just fantasy.

Handguns are for convienence and portability when something more powerful cannot be carried for many reasons.

Shot placement is key to everything else.

So do not consider the handgun as or any other firearm as a major powerhouse.

Pick a good real world ammo JHP and be confidant with it if you will do the rest.
 

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I have always thought that over penetration was like too much of a good thing. What if you need to shoot through a door? Or a tree? Or a large animal? I carry Semi WC or WC because they offer great penetration, and the semi WC offers good expansion.
Expansion isn't certain in a snub revolver. Go with something that will punch a good hole either way.
 

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Thanks for your questions, primemover.

Also thanks to the knowledgeable folks who have responded thus far. I really have learned something by reading this thread.
 

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first off in SD you generally are'nt needing ot shoot though doors and glass.. so dont even worry about that.

HP's expand.. this causes a larger wound channel and helps (but does not guarantee) to keep the round from exiting the target.

if you miss with a HP it can hit someone so it's important regardless what you shoot that you know whats behind your target.. you can't guarantee no one will get hit.. but you want to minimize the chances.. remember you are responsible for ever round you fire.. in other words no spray and pray please.

bottom line do not use FMJ for defense, if you can't legally use HP's then get expanding FMJ.. they're not as good as JHP.. but they are much better then using straight hardball (FMJ)
 

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The 9mm HP will have no problem penetrating a wall or door or glass.

On the glass subject it will deflect almost all handgun rounds used for SD do how much you have to find some research on.

If you have cable or the outdoor channel on wed. night's they have all kinds of shooting shows that talk about different ammo guns and what to expect from each. Good luck.
 

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Qwiks draw said:
I have to ask why this was resurrected like some before this one? Ancient history in normally just that.
Perhaps, it was resurrected for those of us who are still learning about firearms, ammo, etc. in order to help us be more responsible handgun owners. I have some very old .38 caliber round nosed FMJ bullets, but after what I've learned on this thread I think I will strictly use it for range ammo, and never depend upon it for concealed carry self-defense nor for home use as a sd round.

By the way, thanks Quiksdraw, for the excellent points you made in response (three years ago). :thumb:
The Bible is old, too, but it is as up to date as tomorrow's newspaper. :angel:
 

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Okay. Just asking. Usually anything 3 years old or such is left in the archives. Might be time to get the old stuff ut again. :)

I have to dust the shelves anyway. :)

Lots of good stuff in the archives and I agree with you on that. :)
 

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hey think of it like this..
someone used the search rather then starting a new thread.. it's a good thing ;)
 

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Yep, a flash from the past!
in regards to the OP, I ask myself WHY would you be concerned about how a hollowpoint (or a FMJ) for that matter would react passing through a door, glass or anything else??
why would you in a self defense situation be shooting someone through a glass or door?
well see your honor i heard this knock at the door and i was scared so i just unloaded all 6 rounds through the door, you know like they do on TV.
or well judge i saw this guy outside in my front yard last night and didn't want to open the window so i just shot his ass through the window!
hit him too, a couple times I thinkl!
Ok , this isn't going to go well for you!
The only other scenario that really pops in my mind is he/she is a drug dealer and wants to know if someone buys drugs from them and then tries to drive off without paying will the bullets go through the rear windshield?
 

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I would like to know what my SD round will do thats what junk yards are for. It told me many things that many cartridges can do.

As far as a door or wall you could be in your safe room or behind cover and want to know if your round will penetrate that barrier.
 

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45 Forever said:
As far as a door or wall you could be in your safe room or behind cover and want to know if your round will penetrate that barrier.
EXACTLY!!!

If the BG outside my door is hellbent on getting in after verbal warnings and maybe a warning round through the ceiling, I'm not waiting for the door to open before I try to stop the threat.
 

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I can think of a hundred scenarios where you would want more penertration in a gun fight. I would rather have too much penetration than not enough. I am willing to sacrafice a little stopping power to ensure my bullet will find it's target through most anything. IMHO. Every U.S. Military soldier in the world uses ball ammo, sure seems like they are able to stack bodies pretty well. Hollow points have their place, but not in my self defence .38. I prefer the Semi Wadcutter, better penetration with some expansion.
 

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first off they're not using pistols to stack the body's as you put it.

2nd of all 5.56 is unstable due to it's shape.. it generally tumbles as soon as it his something this causes a much nastier wound channel when it enters the body.

3rd of all there is volume of fire, theyr'e not slinging 1 or 2 shot your way they're slinging at least 10 or 20 in 2 or 3 round bursts, or opening up with automatic fire.

dont presume that because FMJ can kill and the military is forced to use it that it makes for good civilian SD in the states, your 38 ain't a m4/16, and this ai'nt a warzone where if someone gets hit you chalk it up to collateral damage or "friendly fire"

the judge will laugh you right into prison with such reasoning.
 

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AAHHHH YEP!
hope they get a nice religious cell mate!
of course to each his own as to WHEN to pull the trigger, personally i want to know the target and make damn sure it really is a threat.
but then again i simply do not look good in Stripes.
 

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olfarhors said:
AAHHHH YEP!
hope they get a nice religious cell mate!
of course to each his own as to WHEN to pull the trigger, personally i want to know the target and make damn sure it really is a threat.
but then again i simply do not look good in Stripes.
IMO: if somebody is trying to pound my front door in, then they're a threat. Especially if they do not heed the warnings.

I would never just shoot willy-nilly at noises in the dark.

Around here the boys in stripes actually clear brush and dig ditches......not something that I'd ever consider doing on a long-term basis.
 
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