Ghost Gun and a question

2149 Views 25 Replies 13 Participants Last post by CJS3, Mar 12, 2018

chowder007

Discussion Starter · Mar 8, 2018

So im sure many if not all in this community is familiar with Cody Wilson. A few years back he invented a way to print of a gun with a 3d printer. If you arent familiar with it or him you can get some info from this short video.

So my question is this. I know you can buy the receivers and even printer from him. But I dont understand how that has any value? You still need the rest of it to make it a gun. Are the rest of the parts easily purchased?

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

CWB

· #2 · Mar 8, 2018 (Edited)

chowder007 said:
So im sure many if not all in this community is familiar with Cody Wilson. A few years back he invented a way to print of a gun with a 3d printer. If you arent familiar with it or him you can get some info from this short video.

So my question is this. I know you can buy the receivers and even printer from him. But I dont understand how that has any value? You still need the rest of it to make it a gun. Are the rest of the parts easily purchased?

That depends on what you print. If you make a PT92 frame, you can buy everything else...slide, barrel, grips, springs, slide bar, trigger, magazines off of eBay. However, it will probably cost as much (or more) than a used pistol. And that's without he cost of the printer. Most of the stuff on eBay right now is about double the price it should be. I've purchased these parts kits for $35 and slide/barrel assemblies for $150.

A note on Gun Broker and other auction sites...don't buy "high capacity" magazines in ads that don't say what he capacity is. I've seen 12 round PT92 mags listed as "high capacity". And if you really want to pay it, there are people who will be asking $85 for a safety.

The two parts ads below total $320 without a magazine, and you can buy a used PT92 with two or three mags for $350 or less.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TAURUS-PT9...070281?hash=item1ca28a8109:g:kOIAAOSwSFZakgAq

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Taurus-PT9...007576?hash=item1ca38cf258:g:wRYAAOSwXMtanpLj

TexasAviator

· #3 · Mar 8, 2018

The rest are fairly easily purchased, depending on the model, like CWB said.

It is probably cheaper to buy one already made. The real value is not a dollar value, its a liberty value. Whether just as a was to say you aren't playing the game or a way to arm yourself without playing the .gov game etc.

I'm considering building one myself.

chowder007

Discussion Starter · #4 · Mar 8, 2018

Well for example. He has an AR15 receiver for 65 bucks and the jig set for 37 bucks. What else is left to buy for a functioning weapon?

https://ghostgunner.net/collections/featured-products

TexasAviator

· #5 · Mar 8, 2018

chowder007 said:
Well for example. He has an AR15 receiver for 65 bucks and the jig set for 37 bucks. What else is left to buy for a functioning weapon?

https://ghostgunner.net/collections/featured-products

Ask 10 AR guys and you will get 15 answers as to what you need!

I am not an AR guy, I prefer AK's, that said, here is a good idea of what you'd need: https://www.midwayusa.com/General.mvc/Index/How-to-Build-AR-15-Rifle

Reactions: 1

youngandfree

· #6 · Mar 9, 2018

chowder007 said:
Well for example. He has an AR15 receiver for 65 bucks and the jig set for 37 bucks. What else is left to buy for a functioning weapon?

https://ghostgunner.net/collections/featured-products

If you are buying from him, you still need the $1675 table top cnc machine he sells. You only need the fixture if youre using his machine. That's to finish milling the $65 AR receiver he sells. Btw, you can get 80% AR lowers cheaper than that else where. Yes you can buy everything else shipped to your door. People don't build them this way to save money, so delete that out of your justification or rationalization.

youngandfree

· #7 · Mar 9, 2018

chowder007 said:
So im sure many if not all in this community is familiar with Cody Wilson. A few years back he invented a way to print of a gun with a 3d printer. If you arent familiar with it or him you can get some info from this short video.

So my question is this. I know you can buy the receivers and even printer from him. But I dont understand how that has any value? You still need the rest of it to make it a gun. Are the rest of the parts easily purchased?

Btw, that's not 3D printing. That's a CNC machine milling a metal receiver. Not quite the same.

Peacemakr40

· #8 · Mar 9, 2018

ok, Just making an observation here but you only just put round down range with your PT111 and now you're asking about ghost guns. I think we need to take a step back and start explaining differences to you.
A "ghost gun" is any firearm that does not have a serial number assigned to it. This doesn't mean if you grind off the serial numbers you have a ghost gun. You have an illegal firearm with the serial numbers ground off.
Machining vs printing:
When a lower receiver or frame (the part of the firearm that the ATF considers the firearm) is machined out from a larger piece of material such as an 80% lower you have effectively created a ghost gun. Material is removed to produce the lower or frame to accomodate the internal parts. Ghost guns cannot be sold , donated or gifted to another person NO MATTER WHAT. To transfer ownership to another person, the "firearm" requires a serial number.
When you start out with powdered material whether powdered plastics or metals and create the frame from nothing by adding layer after layer after layer, you have a 3D printed firearm. Again, it will be a ghost gun as it does not have a serial number. No transfer of a printed firearm without a serial number is legal.

On both, Once you have the frame or lower receiver, you still need to buy the rest of the parts to make it a functioning firearm. It WILL cost you more to build one from parts than it will be to buy a manufactured firearm. Also, if you decide you want to go this route and build one and decide to buy a fully machined lower receiver for an AR, get one marked as a Pistol, not a rifle. If it's a pistol, you can convert it to a rifle legally. If it's marked as a rifle, you cannot use a barrel shorter than 14.5" with a flash hider or comp or other muzzle device for a total length of 16". If you do, you've created a short barreled rifle and well, without the $200 tax stamp, you've committed another felony. So do your homework and study the legal aspects of everything on top of the mechanical aspects.
And yes, I do have a "ghost gun".. or at least did until that horrific boating accident.

See less See more

Reactions: 1

JimmyA

· #9 · Mar 9, 2018

or you can pour a vat of boiling oil over the wall (close range) or fling flaming bags of broken concrete, shards of glass and dog poop at them with a catapult (long range, of course)

Reactions: 1

chowder007

Discussion Starter · #10 · Mar 9, 2018

Peacemakr40 said:
ok, Just making an observation here but you only just put round down range with your PT111 and now you're asking about ghost guns. I think we need to take a step back and start explaining differences to you.
A "ghost gun" is any firearm that does not have a serial number assigned to it. This doesn't mean if you grind off the serial numbers you have a ghost gun. You have an illegal firearm with the serial numbers ground off.
Machining vs printing:
When a lower receiver or frame (the part of the firearm that the ATF considers the firearm) is machined out from a larger piece of material such as an 80% lower you have effectively created a ghost gun. Material is removed to produce the lower or frame to accomodate the internal parts. Ghost guns cannot be sold , donated or gifted to another person NO MATTER WHAT. To transfer ownership to another person, the "firearm" requires a serial number.
When you start out with powdered material whether powdered plastics or metals and create the frame from nothing by adding layer after layer after layer, you have a 3D printed firearm. Again, it will be a ghost gun as it does not have a serial number. No transfer of a printed firearm without a serial number is legal.

On both, Once you have the frame or lower receiver, you still need to buy the rest of the parts to make it a functioning firearm. It WILL cost you more to build one from parts than it will be to buy a manufactured firearm. Also, if you decide you want to go this route and build one and decide to buy a fully machined lower receiver for an AR, get one marked as a Pistol, not a rifle. If it's a pistol, you can convert it to a rifle legally. If it's marked as a rifle, you cannot use a barrel shorter than 14.5" with a flash hider or comp or other muzzle device for a total length of 16". If you do, you've created a short barreled rifle and well, without the $200 tax stamp, you've committed another felony. So do your homework and study the legal aspects of everything on top of the mechanical aspects.
And yes, I do have a "ghost gun".. or at least did until that horrific boating accident.

I'm not really sure why you jumped to the assumption I was looking to buy this. I simply wanted some discussion on the fact it exists and the implications of it.

CWB

· #11 · Mar 9, 2018

Peacemakr40 said:
ok, Just making an observation here but you only just put round down range with your PT111 and now you're asking about ghost guns. I think we need to take a step back and start explaining differences to you.
A "ghost gun" is any firearm that does not have a serial number assigned to it. This doesn't mean if you grind off the serial numbers you have a ghost gun. You have an illegal firearm with the serial numbers ground off.
Machining vs printing: *SNIP*

And if you think law enforcement can't retrieve that serial number after you grind it off, you're sadly mistaken. Serial numbers are stamped, which caused distortions (at the molecular level) in the metal way beyond what you can see. I have an uncle who was a detective in the Denver metro area and he told me how they bring numbers back that have been ground off. In fact, I believe they even grind a bit deeper to obtain a smooth surface to work with.

once0217

· #12 · Mar 9, 2018

Peacemakr40 said:
ok, Just making an observation here but you only just put round down range with your PT111 and now you're asking about ghost guns. I think we need to take a step back and start explaining differences to you.
A "ghost gun" is any firearm that does not have a serial number assigned to it. This doesn't mean if you grind off the serial numbers you have a ghost gun. You have an illegal firearm with the serial numbers ground off.
Machining vs printing:
When a lower receiver or frame (the part of the firearm that the ATF considers the firearm) is machined out from a larger piece of material such as an 80% lower you have effectively created a ghost gun. Material is removed to produce the lower or frame to accomodate the internal parts. Ghost guns cannot be sold , donated or gifted to another person NO MATTER WHAT. To transfer ownership to another person, the "firearm" requires a serial number.
When you start out with powdered material whether powdered plastics or metals and create the frame from nothing by adding layer after layer after layer, you have a 3D printed firearm. Again, it will be a ghost gun as it does not have a serial number. No transfer of a printed firearm without a serial number is legal.

On both, Once you have the frame or lower receiver, you still need to buy the rest of the parts to make it a functioning firearm. It WILL cost you more to build one from parts than it will be to buy a manufactured firearm. Also, if you decide you want to go this route and build one and decide to buy a fully machined lower receiver for an AR, get one marked as a Pistol, not a rifle. If it's a pistol, you can convert it to a rifle legally. If it's marked as a rifle, you cannot use a barrel shorter than 14.5" with a flash hider or comp or other muzzle device for a total length of 16". If you do, you've created a short barreled rifle and well, without the $200 tax stamp, you've committed another felony. So do your homework and study the legal aspects of everything on top of the mechanical aspects.
And yes, I do have a "ghost gun".. or at least did until that horrific boating accident.

The highlighted part is actually a common misconception. The ATF states that if you built it for yourself, and later decide to sell it, without a serial number, then you are free to do so. You cannot build one with the intent to sell, but can build one for yourself and sell later.
Am I Required to Apply a Serial Number to a Homemade Firearm?

olfarhors

· #13 · Mar 9, 2018

once0217 said:
The highlighted part is actually a common misconception. The ATF states that if you built it for yourself, and later decide to sell it, without a serial number, then you are free to do so. You cannot build one with the intent to sell, but can build one for yourself and sell later.
Am I Required to Apply a Serial Number to a Homemade Firearm?

that's my understanding as well, I get that from a couple guys that build these things and think they are just the greatest idea ever.
MYself I haven't researched as they do not interest me in the slightest.
I figure if the GOV starts researching serial numbers and names and address then I got more to worry about than a Ghost gun.

Reactions: 1

Yissnakk

· #14 · Mar 9, 2018

From what I've seen, you need to be pretty skilled with and have access to a drill press and router at the very least, to be able to finish an 80% lower accurately. There's a YouTube of some guy who actually recycles aluminum cans to make a lower receiver, but I think that if one does not possess the proper tools, then it would be a painfully expensive endeavor to undertake...

chowder007

Discussion Starter · #15 · Mar 9, 2018

Yissnakk said:
From what I've seen, you need to be pretty skilled with and have access to a drill press and router at the very least, to be able to finish an 80% lower accurately. There's a YouTube of some guy who actually recycles aluminum cans to make a lower receiver, but I think that if one does not possess the proper tools, then it would be a painfully expensive endeavor to undertake...

Oh yeah for sure. They actually sale a CNC machine on the site for 1700 dollars. Thats a pretty easy price to pay for this ability. If it ever came down to it, they could be pretty important things to own.

youngandfree

· #16 · Mar 10, 2018

chowder007 said:
Oh yeah for sure. They actually sale a CNC machine on the site for 1700 dollars. Thats a pretty easy price to pay for this ability. If it ever came down to it, they could be pretty important things to own.

A jig from 5d Tactical runs about $150. Only a drill and palm router needed.

olfarhors

· #17 · Mar 10, 2018

youngandfree said:
A jig from 5d Tactical runs about $150. Only a drill and palm router needed.

OK, I am not a machinist but??
why would anyone need/ want to cut a design into their hand? (palm).

Reactions: 3

oso

· #18 · Mar 10, 2018

olfarhors said:
OK, I am not a machinist but??
why would anyone need/ want to cut a design into their hand? (palm).

LOL I guess nobody else gets your sense of humor

Reactions: 1

Peacemakr40

· #19 · Mar 10, 2018

I finished my lower on a 10" 5 speed drill press and a cross slide vice. It's not that difficult as long as you remove small amounts of material. As soon as you start trying to hog out a lot of material, you'll run into all sorts of problems. You can get detailed blueprints for an AR-15 or AR-10 lower receiver from multiple sources on line. If you can take measurements and machine with any nominal precision, you can do the work.

NativeTexan

· #20 · Mar 10, 2018

TexasAviator said:
Ask 10 AR guys and you will get 15 answers as to what you need!

I am not an AR guy, I prefer AK's, that said, here is a good idea of what you'd need: https://www.midwayusa.com/General.mvc/Index/How-to-Build-AR-15-Rifle

Friggin' commie.......

Reactions: 1

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.