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I have a D series 738 with an estimated 300 rounds of mixed Fiocchi brass and WPA steel. I also have lightly polished the feed ramp. I had an occasional FTF with the WPA; no big deal. I went to the range yesterday with a clean and lubed weapon, and probably a mistake, a box of Tula .380 steel from Wally Mart. The first 25 rounds were OK. Then I got an FTE with a badly jammed cartridge to the point that I had to disassemble the gun at the range, and whack the barrel many times to finally dislodge the cartridge. I put it back together, racked it a few times. Shot it again and had more FTE's and a couple FTFires as well. I could see the striker mark on the primers. Was able to put the bullets back in and they then fired. The entire gun felt "dry" to the touch even though I had lubed it a couple of days before I shot it. Also, when racking the slide, it would not fully return -- would lodge two millimeters or so before full return with a lodged round. When I got back from the range, I tried racking with a Tipton snap cap, and again some of the time the slide would not fully return and the snap cap was lodged at an angle. I plan to clean and lube it well, and try it again with brass ammo. My question, though, is -- was it the Tulammo? Or is there something going wrong with the gun? Can someone with more experience help on this? I have had mixed results with the Tula steel in other guns. Great in an SKS and in a Hi Point carbine. Occasional failures in a Ruger SR9C. Perhaps it's OK in a loose tolerance weapon and hangs in a tight one? Thanks.
 

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Without seeing the weapon or the ammo, and going on what you have said, I would say the steel ammo is the base of your problem, most likely the Tula steel. You need to clean the chamber out real good and only use brass rounds. If the problem is still there with the brass, then call Taurus CS and see what they can do for you to get it fixed.
 

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An SKS is designed for steel case. I've heard of other TCPs disliking steel case. Brass and more lube would be my prescription.
 

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I haven't shot any of the .380 Tulammo that I have thru my TCP (and perhaps now I save it for my HiPoint CF-380). As others have, I'm guessing that the use of the steel cased Tulammo is at least part of the problem. I have read that some brands of the steel cased ammo have a lacquer-like coating that builds up on the chamber wall with every shot until there is enough present to affect normal function. That just might be where you're at since you said that you've used steel cased stuff before.
I'd disassemble the gun and thoroughly clean with special attention to the chamber. Probably should avoid using the steel cased stuff. Hope you didn't get too much:eek:!
Flex
 

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I would suggest that you run the weapon a bit wetter than usual for another 2-300 rounds, or better get some Gun Grease an apply to the slide/rails and see if that doesn't help a bit.
with only 300 rounds and considering the quality control (ie: finishing) on a 200 dollar semi auto may not be the best in the world it likely needs to wear the parts to get a better/smoother fit.
Ammo cold be a problem as well, depends on the gun but my bet is on running it to dry through a break in period.
 
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I shoot Tulla out of most of my firearms with nary a problem. My TCP gobbles it up like candy, as does my Bersa Thunder 380. It could be that your TCP just doesn't like steel cased stuff, or you could have needed more lube. Personally I would clean it and lube it real good right before going to the range, then run your Tulla through it. If it still has issues with the Tulla then you can be relatively sure its the Tulla ccausing the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Thanks for the suggestions. I had deliberately re-lubed the outside of the barrel and the slide surfaces a couple days before taking it to the range. I thought it was pretty wet. Which brings to me that often asked question on most forums -- how wet is "wet"? And do I need to lube (RemOil) the inside of the barrel and/or chamber? Most information says don't do that. I did not. Any thoughts? And I only got two boxes, being concerned whether it would work or not, so only one left. I still have some of the Fiocchi brass and 350 of Magtech brass.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
100_1609.JPG So I cleaned the gun and lubed it. But when I opened it up in the light, I could see what appears to me to be a chip in the polymer frame. It is the light colored dot to the left of the hammer on the photo (right of the hammer as one would hold the gun). I really don't know what the area looked like previously. It is a bit hard to tell in the photo what it is. After the clean and lube, the slide racks fine and the snap cap cycles without difficulty. Can someone look at their gun and tell me whether this is a normal manufacturing miss or in fact a chip? In which case is it safe to fire? Thanks again.
 

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Thanks for the suggestions. I had deliberately re-lubed the outside of the barrel and the slide surfaces a couple days before taking it to the range. I thought it was pretty wet. Which brings to me that often asked question on most forums -- how wet is "wet"? And do I need to lube (RemOil) the inside of the barrel and/or chamber? Most information says don't do that. I did not. Any thoughts? And I only got two boxes, being concerned whether it would work or not, so only one left. I still have some of the Fiocchi brass and 350 of Magtech brass.
Well to me when breaking in a pistol and depending on the pistol most of mine required no break in right out of the box.
but I tend to run them a tad on the wet side, to the point that its not slinging oil all over me when I shoot It but wetter than I normally carry a gun with.
Never lubricate the inside of a bore or chamber!
also a little oil on the outside of the barrel where it locks up in the bushing or slide shouldn't hurt anything.
basically you don't want any fluid in the areas that have pressure or It becomes hydralic pressure, air can be compressed , liguids for all practical purposes are non compressable.
so something has to move if I takes up space.
anyway thats what I call wet, if it slings oil as I fire it then it gets a good wipe down.
a normally functioning , broke in weapon does not need a lot of lubricant to run properly
 

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can't tell from your picture but normally speaking if its a piece of poly that's broke, chipped, cracked then its not going to be to bad (other than maybe needing replacing) all the poly parts do is support the important parts so you can hold and fire the weapon, they do not contain any of the pressure from firing the weapon, those parts are steel/metal and the poly shell has a metal inner liner (frame) that actually supports the good stuff.
check a local gunsmith for better advice with the weapon in hand.
 

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First of all, steel case is just not as reliable as brass. Period. That's why brass is preferred, and steel is cheap and Russian. Russkies tend to make ultra robust firearms, so they're meant to take it. Steel doesn't give like brass. It's also harder on extractors. That's not to say you can't use it, but don't expect it to perform like brass. It may or may not, YMMV. Secondly, Tula has hard primers. Once again, some guns are made with heavy firing pin springs; and can take it just fine. Others can't. But: Tula ammo is not an ammo spec I would blame your gun for.
 

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As far as lube, some folks here have talked of using grease. Me, I clean all metal parts, oil, and wipe dry. I only add extra drops to the slide. What oil do you use? I've seen a dirty as can be range TCP perform like gangbusters after a couple drops of lube to the slide.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
I called Taurus today. They said not to worry about the polymer chip; but not to use the Tula. They base this on it not being SAAMI-spec ammo, and handed out the unneeded BS about you should go to every manufacturer's web site and check. So I did go to Tula's website where it says they meet European CIP spec. Placing these spec's side by side with SAAMI, it appears that the Tula should be loaded to a lower pressure than a US brand (18,500 psi vs. 21,500) but the Tula claims a slightly higher muzzle velocity. I also read on an AR forum that Tula in 223 is notorious for jamming AR's whereas brass and Wolf do not cause problems (same as I found with the Taurus.) My next step is what I had planned -- try it again with brass ammo. My cleaning and lubing is like you all have said -- clean, lube (Remoil), wipe, add more lube to slide and barrel where it rubs the slide. Wet means to me like the other poster said -- not drenched but not dry. And I don't run it with lube inside in the barrel! We will see next week. An interesting comment on the Tula web site concerned Tula BrassMax in 9mm Luger. It claims much higher muzzle velocity and muzzle energy than their steel 9mm, more like a +P would be, although it sure does not say +P on the can. This is not the case with their BrassMax 380, with similar specs to the steel. Go figure. I have a few hundred unopened Tula BrassMax in 9mm Luger waiting to go in the Ruger SR9c and the HiPoint carbine, both of which are definitely +P rated.
 

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Well you have to play the manufactures game for the warranty purposes!
But yea The CIP standard is very close to SAAMI, there Is slight difference in how the test are conducted.
Not sure if you know or not but now pressure may be listed in either CUP or PSI and are not the same.
Most CIP I see are listed as CUP and SAAMI has moved more to PSI.
In any regard hope you get it running right.
 

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Everything you didn't want to know about the difference between CUP and PSI: Long story short, they are measured differently, and the numbers do not convert accurately. It is like comparing acceleration to velocity. Especially with handgun loads. A CUP load converted to PSI might look less than American spec, but in reality it could be higher.

"Most of the loads compared well within the safe zone, but some propellants that “shot spec” on crusher were exceeding the transducer limit of 35,000 psi by up to 7,000 psi."

Read more: CUP, psi & Reloading Data
 

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Hi Surfsafe

Get rid of that Ammo .I have a D series also and mine did the same thing.its that Ammo
I did have the reliable enhacement done to mine.look under gun smithing and it has help
a bunch .Try the white box next time and see if that helps.I bought the same Ammo as you
and when I took my pistol to the range they check your ammo first.its an indoor range
the owner told me NEVER bring that ammo to his range again.I can see why its junk.


Take Care and good luck
Jeff
 

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I'm not sure I'd like to deal with an owner like that. There are guns I'd shoot it in, just not a pocket gun built for maximum concealment.

Let's get this straight. Tula is cheap Russian stuff. That doesn't mean it isn't good for its purpose, especially in military grade hardware. But never shoot steel case and expect it to work like brass. Never shoot euro spec and expect it to perform like US top shelf. It's just that simple. I shoot Tula .308, and get better results than standard federal, Winchester, or Remington ammo. Just understand its purpose, and don't expect cheap ammo to perform like FBI grade.
 

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I don't know about Tulammo in .380, but the 9mm Tulammo made my son's Sig which is a beautiful shooting machine jam up after about 25 rounds. We've had no problem with any other ammo in his Sig, but Tulammo quickly gummed up the works. You could tell while you were shooting it that something wasn't right. Lots of smoke and lots of flash - just not good.
 

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you can shoot whatever you want, but I hope you realize the meaning of "the point of diminishing returns". Price shopping at Wal-Mart, I see that I can buy U.S. made ammo for about .04 more per round. I NEVER shoot over 50 rounds per outing, so that is an extra $2. If there is any risk whatsoever that the $2 you are saving may be degrading the function or life of the firearm, you have approached the "point of diminishing returns". In other words, is it really that important to save $2 if you have any doubts whatsoever about the quality of the ammo you are using?

As for Taurus explaining "the unneeded BS about you should go to every manufacturer's web site and check"...they have no way of knowing the experience or knowledge level of the person they are speaking with, so they must, with every customer, err on the side of caution and full disclosure in order to minimize the potential for liability (aka, lawsuits).

Good luck with whatever ammo you choose, and let us know if one ammo seems to be working better than Tula.
 
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