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Firearm Suggestion - Raging Bull in 45-70 Gov't

15K views 56 replies 21 participants last post by  fsimpson 
#1 ·
Magnum Research has the BFR in 45-70...and a selling point is a low pressure, high velocity revolver round! Go to their site!

Taurus would hit a home run, I believe, with a Ragin Bull in 45-70! Heck, they ALREADY MAKE A RAGING JUDGE!

Who else would like to see Taurus poduce a 45-70 revolver, perhaps a 5 shot with unfluted cylinder with the Taurus bull laser engraved on it?

If Taurus had email addy's available for the execs, I would pitch the heck out of this great idea!

Anyone else as rabid about this concept as I am?

They could call it "Gov't Bull!"

This would compliment me and lots o' other folks with Guide Guns of the same caliber! :D

The time for the Gov't Bull has come! :)
 
#7 ·
Have owned the BFR 45/70 for years. The guy that builds them was very helpful with load data when I bought it. Told me he also makes a 450 cylinder for it if I would send it to him for fitting. Price was reasonable but after shooting his loads was content with the 45/70. I own and have owned several of the Raging series of guns. You need at least 10" of barrel to burn powder, so you are looking at a gun the size of a BFR or X frame Smith. A Taurus with their grips and ported barrel would probably be easier to handle. Cylinder needs to be long enough to take the long cast bullet loads. Rated for at least 405 grain lever action loads. Do a heavy crimp to get good ignition, unlike a rifle the 45/70 in a revolver needs more ignition in the case. The BFR is easier on the hand than my Contender in 45/70 and it has TC's 14" ported barrel.
 
#10 ·
I don't think a swing-out cylinder would be strong enough for 45-70...........the reason being is people would "hot rod" the round and be shooting guns loose. Even the BFR is recommended for "mid range" 45-70, not the hot stuff made for modern lever guns like the Marlin.
 
#50 ·
I respectfully disagree...and all one has tro do is compare 45/70 pressures with 500 S & W and 454 Casull pressures. No comparison. 45/70 is MUCH less. A swing out cylinder as in the Raging series would be just fine. More than fine in fact.
 
#11 ·
Chamber pressure on the Smith X frame guns are higher than 45/70 loads that are listed for Ruger number rifles. They use a swing out cylinder. When I bought my BFR in 45/70 the gentleman that builds them for Magnum Research gave me a list of loads for the gun and they were above lever loads. He also said he would build a 450 Marlin cylinder for it if I did not like the 45/70 loads. I do not shoot the BFR loads in my Contender, and did not have a 450 Marlin cylinder built. I have shot model 29 Smiths loose over the years but the BFR is still tight. Taurus Raging series cylinders with front and rear lock are strong enough to handle the 500 Smith and 454 rounds. My Raging Bull is one of their older guns and after all these years it is still tight. Taurus builds better guns than they get credit for. I would not be afraid of a Raging 45/70 with lever loads and 405 grain bullets if they said it was rated for it. Would be lower chamber pressure than the 454 or 500. I respect the doubts because of all the bad press Taurus has had, but trust their guns from personal use instead of press good or bad.
 
#12 ·
That would look even more like a cartoon seeing that thing coming out of a box, even worse to see it pulled at the range. But that would be one glorious BANG! on that first shot. You might notice the muzzle flash when you locate the shooter, which might happen by the third shot. Lol
 
#17 · (Edited)
I used to Hand load the 45/70 & owned a half dozen or so rifles chambered in the old war horse... the 45/70 operates at much lower pressures than the 454 and 500 S&W , it can handle heavy long bullets..

Taurus has the frame and the cylinder....go for it....I say..

45/70 Government is the only Government I trust !!!!! That was my signature for a few years....
 
#19 ·
Please no. The guy with the BFR that shows up on the 7 yard range where I shoot clears the line when he touches off his first shot. A tough gun to shoot? just try standing to the side of somebody shooting one.
 
#20 ·
45/70 in a handgun.... i would be running from the firing line after the first shot. I'm waiting for that guy to leave before i go back to shoot, because that's beyond ridiculous. Don't they already consider the Raging series cartoon guns because of the sheer size? A 45/70 is almost to the point of overkill IMO.
 
#54 ·
Response... I know it's a decade later, BUT, American Derringer (YES, a "derringer") called the M4 Alaskan Survival gun is an over & under, 2-bbl, large frame "derringer"! The top bbl is solely chambered for the 45/70 Government rifle round, and the bottom bbl is for the 2¾" or 3" .410 SS, the 45 Colt rounds. Because of the slight, but significant, differences in the rims and the chamber requirements, no one barrel will accommodate all these rounds. And to watch some videos on Youtube of guys shooting the 45/70 is HILARIOUS!! The kick is ridiculous! When it kicks back and that hammer gouges into your hand, it minimally produces blood welts, and worse, causes your hand to bleed openly.

Yea, I agree with you. I wouldn't want to be around anyone firing THAT thing!
 
#22 ·
Some interesting stats on the 45-70 Gov't in a revolver from the Magnum Research site, which is why I feel the "Gov't Bull" by Taurus would make a huge market splash and be viable:

------------------------------------


Adapted from Magnum Research site:

RECOIL

The BFR in 45/70 recoils less than any .44 Magnum that weighs under 3-pounds.

Recoil is a factor of bullet weight, velocity and gun weight.

Remember recoil is not a factor of size, just because it is physically large does not mean that it recoils large. The BFR simply weighs a little more than other revolvers because of its heavy design for powerful ammunition. The added weight makes the gun balance better, makes it easier to hold steady and makes it recoil less…Period.

The 45/70 will produce the same velocity as the 454 Casull with 2/3 less pressure, and a lot less noise and muzzle flash. This is because the 45/70 case is longer so it allows for different types of gunpowder to be used and the case has more room for the burning and expanding gases to expand. The end result is less pressure, less wear and tear on the gun, less noise and less recoil.

SAFETY

The BFR uses a transfer bar that will not allow the gun to fire unless the trigger is pulled back to release the hammer only after it has been fully cocked. There is no need to carry the gun with an empty chamber while hunting. The BFR will not fire if it has been accidentally dropped.

Special processes are used for heat treating critical parts.

All guns are proof fired after assembly to insure integrity of the entire revolver and its total function.

RECOIL OF FACTORY REVOLVERS AND LOADS

Formula: Add velocity to bullet weight and multiply that number by the velocity. Then divide by the weight of the firearm multiplied by 80.

BFR .450 Marlin, 10-Inch
4.5 lbs.
350-gr. Bullet
1814 FPS
109.04 Recoil Factor

BFR .45/70, 7.5-Inch
4.4 lbs.
300-gr. Bullet
1472 FPS
74.1 Recoil Factor

BFR .480, 7.5-Inch
3.75 lbs.
325-gr. Bullet
1409 FPS
81.44 Recoil Factor

Redhawk .480, 7.5-Inch
3.3 lbs.
325-gr. Bullet
1409 FPS
92.55 Recoil Factor

Redhawk .454, 7.5-Inch
3.3 lbs.
300-gr. Bullet
1600 FPS
115.15 Recoil Factor

Freedom Arms .454, 7.5-Inch
3.25 lbs.
300-gr. Bullet
1600 FPS
116.92 Recoil Factor

Super Blackhawk .44, 8-Inch
2.9 lbs.
240-gr. Bullet
1400 FPS
98.96 Recoil Factor

BFR .45/70 recoils less than all of the above guns including the lowly .44 Magnum with a 4 5/8-inch barrel. The advantages of the .45/70 over the .454 Casull are that the .45/70 is an extremely potent hunting cartridge that is loaded at EXTREMELY low pressures. The Casull is loaded at over 50,000 PSI and the .45/70 is loaded under 25,000 PSI. The .45/70 can be hand-loaded to exceed .454 Casull velocity and still be under 30,000 PSI! There is the big advantage. Much less recoil and half the working pressure means the guns will shoot better and last longer. Ammo is also a lot less expensive and more readily available. THE LONG .45/70 CARTRIDGE DOES NOT MEAN MORE RECOIL IT MEANS MUCH LESS PRESSURE BECAUSE THE POWDER HAS MORE ROOM TO EXPAND, GIVING EQUAL PERFORMANCE WITH LESS PRESSURE.

BFR VELOCITY WITH SELECTED AMMO
(All tested with PACT Chronograph)

.45/70, 7.5-Inch Barrel

300 grain Federal Sierra Classic, average 1472 FPS and muzzle energy 1444 FT/LBS

300 grain Winchester Super X, average 1272 FPS and muzzle energy 1078 FL/LBS

405 grain PMC, average 980 FPS and muzzle energy 864 FT/LBS


.45/70, 10-Inch Barrel

300 grain Federal Sierra Classic, average 1507 FPS and muzzle energy 1513 FT/LBS

300 grain Winchester Super X, average 1405 FPS and muzzle energy 1315 FT/LBS

405 grain PMC, average 1056 FPS and muzzle energy 1003 FT/LBS
 
#23 ·
You have been doing your home work. Just to keep you interested a friend that liked my BFR started shooting it with 300 grain loads and was impressed that recoil was less than his 44mag Ruger with 240 grain loads. Also that a BFR 45/70 with a 4 X handgun scope shot under 4" at a 100 yards from bags. The guy that owned it let him shoot and he said it was like shooting a rifle off the bags. Just something to think about if Taurus doesn't come out with one. After shooting both the 7" and 10" I bought the 10". 7" blows a lot of powder with some loads, 10" runs with just about any load. Taller front sights are offered on another forum for heavy loads, and load data.
 
#25 ·
Ya know, Taurus has made other chamberings which seem improbable (5mm revolver anyone?), so why not a 45/70? It seems to me that it would be a great companion for someone in Alaska who is already carrying something like a Marlin 1895G for field work or protection.......
 
#26 ·
I sent a letter to Taurus CEO (even referenced this thread!), just for the heck of it hockin' the idea of this gun, which Taurus could EASILY do considering their Raging Judge!

Let's keep our fingers crossed and I encourage you all to join me in writing Taurus to help give the "Gov't Bull" the light of day! :)
 
#27 ·
Got the 45/70 BFR out yesterday and cleaned it. Friend is trying to find the time to load a few rounds for his single shot rifle, ( Sharps replica), and come shoot both. He shot the BFR and loves it, he is taking it to shoot at some of the shoots he goes to. Would love to see a Taurus with cylinder long enough for the heavy cast bullets. Even loaded down they have a lot of energy. Being able to mount a scope on the rib would be another plus. Hang in there.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Good evening Taurus community! I received a pleasant response from Mr. Kresser, President and CEO of Taurus regarding the letter I sent! Oh, heck...I just have to share it verbatim!:

"Dear Mr. Wickstrom:

Thank you very much for your support and your enthusiastic idea of the "Gov't Bull." I like it!

I really appreciate hearing from you and we will certainly take into consideration your thoughts.
I cannot really specify if and when this would become effective, but we value your intake.

Please accept a token of our appreciation and keep in touch.

Best regards,



Mark Kresser
President and CEO

mk"

PS: The token of appreciation he sent me was actually a Benchmade Mini Griptillian Special Lasermark knife with the Taurus Logo on it, as well as the inscription "Gov't Bull, 1 of 1" on the blade! How cool is that! I will certainly send a letter of thanks to Mr. Kresser. I did not expect such a nice gift, and honestly didn't expect anything at all...just wanting/intending on my part to merely plant an idea in the creative and fertile minds of the folks at Taurus. I just hope the "seed" has been planted for the "Gov't Bull," and that they give me a nice discount on a "Gov't Bull" if the idea comes to fruition/reality! lol ;)
 
#30 ·
Supreme Court Justice .45-70

If bigger is better, why not go whole hog and introduce a .45-70 revolver. I remember a poorly executed example of one from the 80's, I think Taurus could do a nicer stainless version.
 
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