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Discussion Starter #1
OK, let me ease into this subject.

One, I own (among a host of other .45 acp pistols, mostly high end, NM match grade, 1911's) a PT24/7 PRO (12+1) and it's baby brother the PT-145 Millennium Pro (10+1) both in .45acp. Both have the Hiene figure eight, white dot sights that are dovetail mounts on the slide. Both shoot low and to the right (230 hardball, as well as 230 JHP and any other ammo). To compensate I use a 11:00 oclock high hold to center up. Hiene on his web sight says if you have issues with the sights on Taurus pistols go back to Taurus cause Taurus makes them under license. As to shooting low he says it is your trigger pull pulling the barrel off target. He also says that that the sights were designed for a center mass point of hold and not to use a six oclock hold. Now I do not expect NM accuracy from the PT145 and it's short barrel at 25 yards but it had better shoot to POA at 15 yards and less. The PT24/7 I expect to give me a decent grouping at 25 yards when holding center mass as my Point of Aim. It doesn't happen!! Let me state front up, it is not me, my hold, my stance, my trigger pull, my ammo or anything else. To many others on this board as well as the PT1911 board have the same issues. Some lucky guys with 9MM's and .40's will shoot dead on. Not the .45's. Other really good shooters using my pistols achieved the same results. I can correct ths shooting right by adjusting either the front or rear sight but to correct shooting low I'm going to have to lower the top of the front sight.

Looking for new sight sets that will fit the Hiene dove tail cut I ran across an ad in Sportsmans Guide for Williams "Fire Sights" for the Taurus PT 111, 140, 145, 132, 138 (Millennium and Millinnium PRO). Listed at $39.97 for the front and rear sight set. Green fiber optic on the rear and Red on the front sight. Here's the catch. The "early" model Taurus pistols had the front and rear sights held on with screws. The "later" model pistols use dovetail sight sets (secured with set screws). If you have dove tail sights, then you have to go to Williams for a unlisted (unadvertised) set.

The Williams Fire Sight Fiber Optic set for the above listed pistols that are NOT DOVETAILED are Williams part #70268, listed at $46.95 a set. (Available from Natchez Shooters Supply, 800-251-7839, 2007 Master Catalog, page 101, Part# C07WU70268 for $33.69.)

The Williams Fire Sight Fiber Optic set for the above listed pistols that are ARE DOVETAILED are Williams part #70897, listed at $46.95 a set. This set is not available from Midway, Natchez or Mid-South, only Williams (800-530-9028).

If it fits the PT-145 then it will fit the PT24/7 PRO cause the dovetails have the same measurements.

Will the new F/O sight sets correct the POI problem. I hope so. If not as soon as I can solve the sighting problem with the PT 1911, I will apply the same solutions to my 24/7 and 145. I don't want to mess with the Hiene dovetail cut in the slide. The minute you chuck it up and mill a new dovetail to mount a BOMAR, Champion, Aristrocrat or Novak adjustable rear sight then you can kiss your Taurus warranty out the door.

I'm changing over to Williams F/O sights and have two sets on order. Others wanting to do so may want to wait for me to get them installed and do a range report. Hope this helps and if anybody else has walked in my shoes and solved the problem I would appreciate a posting or PM.

The last time I did a report on the PT1911SS somebody suggested I should shoot more and tinker less with my pistols (trying to fix non-existant problems, since his new pistol shot to point of aim). Well, I do a IDPA and IPSC match each month and a local combat indoor match twice a month, as well as practice (indoor/outdoor range and dry fire) . I usually order 1000 Rainier 230 gr. plated .45's at the start of the month and somehow I seem to need another box of bullets at the end of the month. Between shooting matches and reloading, I'm hard pressed to do much tinkering.

You'all stay in out of the bad weather, spring will be here soon. ;D

High Power Bob in South Carolina.
 

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High Power Bob,
My PT-145 shoots low and to the right just like yours. Do you know what the height of the Williams front sight is?
Since you really do shoot a lot---do you find very much metal filings in your PT-145 when you clean it? Mine has a lot!
Thanks,
Pat
 

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"Others wanting to do so may want to wait for me to get them installed and do a range report."

I'll be waiting. Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #4
PT145man,

Define metal filings. Lead, copper, brass, polymer plastic, steel??. Where in the pistol? Caliber of pistol?

I do not shoot lead bullets. Period! Copper is hard enough to clean out of barrels, but lead. That's just me. Exception: My long range John Bodine Rolling Block, .45-70 black powder rifle.

Lead is softer and smoother that copper. Lead semi-wad cutters will feed in most semi-auto's even if the barrel is not specifically throated for them. The shoulder on the semi-wadcutter is just shaved off and the bullet feeds into the chamber. Not so with copper plated or FMJ bullets. The shoulder of the semi-wadcutter will catch on the lip of the throat and then you have a FTF. Copper will shave off if there is a rough edge it feeds across before being chambered in the barrel.

Do you load your own ammo?? If you do not put enough taper crimp on the brass case then there is a brass "lip" at the intersection of the case and bullet. As the bullet is chambered this "lip" will get shaved and you wind up with brass filing/residue at the base of the barel throat. Run your finger down the tip of the bullet across the intersection of the brass case. You should feel no "lip" on the case on your reloads. Factory fresh, brand new ammo will have a "lip". This results in brass shavings close to the barrel throat.

Other than that if there is an excess of metal filings in one spot then by close examination with a lot of light and magnification you should see a wear spot. This could be something out of tolerence or parts mating together.

The following is my personal opinion and it is based on my competition experience on the firing line with both long guns, as well as pistols. 99% are not properly lubricated. Oil does not work on a semi-auto pistol, it takes grease. Oil to properly lubricate high pressure contact points needs to be fed by a pressurized oil supply. Just like an auto engine. The slide action of a semi-auto will sling oil off surfaces that need lube. Grease is the only thing that will stick and provide the lubrication needed. There are places in a semi-auto where oil is used. Suffice to say that I have seen numerous operating problems on semi-autos solved with a deep clean and a proper lube job.

Want to see a proper lube job? Buy the video from Wilson Combat that is titled "Colt 1911 Auto, Complete disassembly and Reassembly". That's the best money you can spend. Not only do you find out how to take a Colt Series 80 apart but you see the proper lube techniques on reassembly. The same lube techniques applies to the tupperware style semi-autos. I've never seen a firearm malfunction due to an overuse of lubrication but I've seen a lot that stopped due to little or no lube.

Now be more specific when you describe metal filings and where they are located. This could get involved so you may want to do it by PM. I'll be more than happy to try and help. You may have stumbled on something. I need to do more range time with my PT-145. It's my "dress up" concealed carry. My PT24/7 PRO is on my hip when I'm on the plantation (along with a 12 ga pump and my .450 Marlin). The 24/7 carries easily and the 12+1 easily trumps any of my 1911's.

High Power Bob in sunny (cold) SC.
 

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I ordered a set from CTD for way less than you paid for yours. They are simple to install using the hair dyer method. They work great and look great. Best investment since I bought the pistol itself.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
sel366,

Please define CTD, part number, cost, contact information.

The Williams Fire Sight set admittedly is not cheap, but the only one I could find where the technician knew about the different models and had a set to fit the Heinie dovetails. Do they shoot to point of aim? Not talking right or left, that can be corrected by moving the front or rear sight in the dovetail. I'm talking elevation at 15/25 yards with 230 hardball. This may have application across the entire line of pistol where Taurus uses the Heinie sight.

Info please. Here or via PM.

Thanks, High Power Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Just figured it out. CTD is "Cheaper Than Dirt". I'll bet they don't have the Williams FO set that fits dovetails on the slide.
According to Williams those are unadvertised, uncataloged items and only available thru them. Course he could have been feeding me a line, but I couldn't find them elsewhere.
 

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High Power Bob, I'll be waiting on your range test as well. Just picked up a new PT140 and the only thing I don't like about is the Straight 8 sight. I've never used them and before I invest the time in fixing my sight picture to use them correctly, I may just swap them out for what I am used to, a simple but effective 3 dot sight.

BTW, only 1000 rounds a month? You need to shoot more... :D ;)
 

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I must be the exception here. Mine shoots high when off a rest. I just line the posts up, easier than fooling with how far a dot is supposed to be over the other. Standing up however, little gun is hard to shoot, but best group was right at poa at 15 yards. what type of grease do you recomend? and have you had any problems with grit getting into the metal trap that resets the trigger? mine isnt releasing the trigger to reset? thanks
 

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I just ordered a set of Fire Sights from CTD for a 3rd gen PT140. Here is the link:

Williams #70897
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/46042-56448-2096.html

I don't like the Straight 8s, but I don't have any issues with them regarding POA/POI. I just followed the instructions on the Heinie website saying that POA = POI. I find I acquire the target quicker with 3 dots as I can align the sights vertically easier. I've actually been ignoring the dots with the Straight 8s and using them as plain sights.
 

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Sorry, shoulda clarified that I tried to order from CTD site. I'll have to poke around at the tac-store after I get home from work. Thnx sholiz.
 

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Jason1351 said:
Sorry, shoulda clarified that I tried to order from CTD site. I'll have to poke around at the tac-store after I get home from work. Thnx sholiz.
:( Apparently, they're sold out aswell. Got this in my email from them once they processed my order.


Thank you for your order. We apologize, but your order has been temporarily placed on hold because we have just run out of stock on:
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Williams Gun Sight Firesights $34.95
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They are very popular and hard to keep around. We do expect to receive the merchandise back in stock within 1-2 weeks. We will not charge your credit card until we are able to ship the order. You will be automatically notified with your tracking number when your order ships.



EDIT: CTD seems to have them in stock again :-[
 

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i orderd from the tac store today ill post results.
 

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I found the best price on the Williams dovetailed sights at www.opticsplanet.com and www.tactical-store.com. Both sites looked similar, so I ran a WhoIs search and found that both websites are run by the same company: Optics Planet out of Northbrook, Il.
I ordered a set of Williams sights from opticsplanet on Jan 23 and almost immediately received a similar out-of-stock/on hold e-mail. :mad: I just received an e-mail this morning telling me that my sights have shipped via UPS. ;D I'll let you know when I receive them and how the install goes.
 

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I received my Williams sights today and I couldn't wait to install them. Unfortunately, my wife had other plans for my time tonight that involved a paint brush and a very tall wall. :rolleyes: Now that the painting is out of the way, I just got around to opening the package and started the installation.
The first thing I noticed is that they came with a red rear and green front configuration, even though every website that sells the 70897 model lists them as green rear, red front. Even the picture on the package shows the green rear, red front. Not a big deal to me, but curious nonetheless :???:
Then as I went to install the rear sight, I noticed something that kinda worried me. When you remove the rear sight, you will notice under the dovetail that there is a 2mm or so recessed area into which the set screw seats. Well, the Williams sights are taller (thicker) than the Heine, but you their set screw is VERY much shorter. When you install the set screw, it is extremely far down into the rear sight...to the point that I worry just how much is actually in the threads holding onto the sight. I would guess that the set screw is only holding on to the last 1/8th of the thickness of the sight. As a comparison, it appears that the Heine rear sight set screw holds on to at least half of the thickness of the sight. I'm such a NOOB that I don't know how to post pictures, otherwise I would be able to show you a really good picture of the two rear sights and their set screws side-by-side.

I would love to hear from someone else who has installed these sights to see if this is standard, or if I received a freakishly short rear set screw. I'm going to e-mail Williams customer service to bring up both of these issues to see what their take is.
 

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I just picked up a PT140 & I too noticed that it shot low. I'm dead on side to side, but about 6 to 8 inches low on every shot.

I will be watching intently for a range report on these sites.
 

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EvilTwin v2 said:
I just picked up a PT140 & I too noticed that it shot low. I'm dead on side to side, but about 6 to 8 inches low on every shot.

I will be watching intently for a range report on these sites.
With the Heine sights, make sure your front dot is directly on top of your point of impact. Not at the 6 o'clock position as with 3-dot sights.
 

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naltal,
I installed my firesights last week and noticed the same thing you did with the rear setscrew. I'll probably replace the screw with a longer one. Let us know what Williams says about it.

I haven't had the time to test the sights out at the range yet though, but the sight picture looks much better than the straight 8s.
 
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