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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I began carrying concealed about one month ago and was shopping around for some decent defense rounds. After a bunch of research, I settled on the Federal 9mm 150 gr micro HST. Today I ran 24 through my PT-111 G2. It fed flawlessly in both single fire and three round rapid fire. There was definitely a noticeable drop in recoil compared to 115 gr fmj rounds which really assisted in followup shots. For those of you who may not be familiar with this round, here are the specs:

5 shot median penetration depth of 16"
Expansion diameter of 0.681"
Median velocity of 893 fps.

If you are looking for a low velocity defensive round, especially for shorter barreled handguns, you may want to try these out.
 

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My son's new Ruger EC9 was shooting way low with 115's and was going to have him try these to see if they would hit POA. I normally use 115's but the 150 hst looked good to me.
 

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Wonder how they'd compare to my handload 147 gr XTPs.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
My son's new Ruger EC9 was shooting way low with 115's and was going to have him try these to see if they would hit POA. I normally use 115's but the 150 hst looked good to me.
Based on the reviews written and my cursory experience with the round, I would think the hst would perform quite well in the Ruger EC9. As I said, the reduced recoil was quite noticeable.
 

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Just recently had the chance to work with some HSTs, both 124 and 147 gr. They are exceptional. I'm not normally in to subsonic loads, but in the smaller 9s, they might just be the ticket. Out of necessity, I had to load the 147 gr. Berry's Hybrid Hollow-Point a good bit slower than their advertised velocity, and at around 900 FPS from an M&P Shield, they are outstanding.;)
 
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I like shooting the 124 grain, I have good luck with them.

I also like to use the 124 gr HST for my SD ammo. Feel better with the extra couple hundred fps velocity using the 124 gr vs the 150 gr.

 

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MY take is the 150 would be a much better round out of a 38 Super or 9x23 than a 9 MM, but there are those that like the heavy girls!
this day in age the modern hollow point can be had in about any weight especially in 9 MM that will work very effectively, the old days of a manufacture only having one caliber weight that works is long gone, design and materials of projectiles offer lots of great choices.
my 9 M and me seem to work just dandy from 92 grain projectiles up to 147 grain, normally hovering in the 115 grainers for the 9 MM and 124 for the 38 supers.
again its more about the Archer than the arrow being shot.
 
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MY take is the 150 would be a much better round out of a 38 Super or 9x23 than a 9 MM, but there are those that like the heavy girls!
this day in age the modern hollow point can be had in about any weight especially in 9 MM that will work very effectively, the old days of a manufacture only having one caliber weight that works is long gone, design and materials of projectiles offer lots of great choices.
my 9 M and me seem to work just dandy from 92 grain projectiles up to 147 grain, normally hovering in the 115 grainers for the 9 MM and 124 for the 38 supers.
again its more about the Archer than the arrow being shot.
One question, O: why? A 147/150 really can't help but penetrate. I load them fast at 1125 FPS or better to prevent excess penetration and because JHPs deposit a good bit of their energy within the 1st - 15th centimeter of penetration. I gave up the .40 S&W as a result.

Normally, I don't do subsonic, but with numbers like these from a subcompact:

5 shot median penetration depth of 16"
Expansion diameter of 0.681"
Median velocity of 893 fps.

You ain't gonna get 16" of penetration and Max Expansion at .681" with a 115 gr. JHP.

When I developed the 9mm loads with the 147 gr. Berry's Hybrid Hollow-Point and had to reduce velocity to 1000 FPS so that the bullet would not have petals break away, it was a bit disappointing until I finally thought, WTH, that's still as good as most factory loads while the 147 gr. HHP expanded to .7". First application that popped in my head was subcompacts. I tested with a Shield and found it a very nice shooting load at 893 FPS.;)
 
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ahh becasue I aint a penetration junkie.
I have seen in actual shootings i would guess well over 100 incidents and have yet to few not be penetrated with a medium to heavy powered projectile.
even the few that were not penetrated didn't seem to enjoy it and wish to continue the fight.
course I carry semi autoes and so if at first they don't stop then fire, fire again is my motto.
now the 22, the 25 the 32 are not what i am talking about but more powerful cartriges.
I seen a lot more shoot throughs than failures to penetrate myself.
and true a good many of these were using FMJ as that's the cheapest ammo out there.
 

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The 9m 150 Gr HST is a good round. The ballistic tests are excellent.
I think most all of the modern projectiles are excellent self defense rounds as long as they function in your particular gun. to me personally all this jello testing and advertising proves one thing in a certain scenario ( god I hope the FBI don't read this), but there are other test that revel other end results, just depends on what test that you wish to believe.
what we stray away from remembering is this is a testing medium that comes close to representing what some believe is a replica of the human body--minus of course muscle, bone, nerves and pain--at least I never remember where a block of bal gel screamed and ran away when it was shot.
I am just saying bal gel is a testing medium to replicate exact (or near so) results from like projectiles--it is not a human body.
 

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I think most all of the modern projectiles are excellent self defense rounds as long as they function in your particular gun. to me personally all this jello testing and advertising proves one thing in a certain scenario ( god I hope the FBI don't read this), but there are other test that revel other end results, just depends on what test that you wish to believe.
what we stray away from remembering is this is a testing medium that comes close to representing what some believe is a replica of the human body--minus of course muscle, bone, nerves and pain--at least I never remember where a block of bal gel screamed and ran away when it was shot.
I am just saying bal gel is a testing medium to replicate exact (or near so) results from like projectiles--it is not a human body.
That's my point about Charles Schwartz. Firstly, he is a retired federal LE officer, and he happened to minor in physics at Ohio St. There is nothing since the Thompson/LaGarde tests that he has not included in his studies, and everything else up til now whether it be Dr.s Courtney, M&S or the late Dr. Martin Fackler. No US LE data or US military data has been overlooked. It ain't just about Jello. And it doesn't preclude anyone from adapting the data to what their own eyes have observed.

I don't buy into the FBI's obsession with penetration. I have a pretty good idea about the distance from my own sternum to spine. I practice COM, not potentialities like firing at the shoulders and needing 18" of penetration to reach the heart. QAS does far more than predict penetration. There are values for just about anything any of us can imagine if, in fact, it has occurred in the past.

As far as stopping predictions, they're what they ought to be . . . cumulative, where percentages go up based on the number of rounds fired that stop an adversary within 30 seconds, with 70% considered very good for the first shot where you'll likely need four shots to break into the 99th percentile.

There are a bunch of old, worn out cliches out there. That, however, will not stop me from trying to increase my knowledge, personally.;)
 
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yep!
Fackler worked for the FBI-- Fackler developed 10% bal gel, the FBI uses the Bal Gel test--go figure!
not saying that its irrelevant jsut that its only one way to observe results.
 
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yep!
Fackler worked for the FBI-- Fackler developed 10% bal gel, the FBI uses the Bal Gel test--go figure!
not saying that its irrelevant jsut that its only one way to observe results.
Unfortunately, his results weren't very good. He began consulting with the FBI after the "Miami Shootout" of 1986. First it was subsonic 147 gr. JHPs that overpenetrated. 10mm Lite that didn't light anything. Malfunctioning decockers on the S & W 1076 didn't help. Then mediocre .40 S&W loads that gave us the 165 gr. Medium velocity garbage. Wonder if the load sheet SPEER sent me has any collector value??? And now they've come full circle by going back to 9mm.

Geez, how many different pistol contracts is that Mr. Mueller? Must have been a Russian conspiracy on American Taxpayers. I'm not sure that they didn't already have the 10% calibrated ordnance gel, but he certainly fell in love with it. He is largely responsible for their obsession with penetration. This while the Texas DPS was about 10 years ahead of their testing protocol and how the DPS came to select the .357 SIG ammo and pistols. That was based on their conclusion that from the largest male to the smallest female, 160 PF was the magic number as far as recoil. Now they're back to issuing recruits the 9 x 19mm P320. veteran officers have a bit more leeway in what they're allowed to carry.;)
 
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MY take is the 150 would be a much better round out of a 38 Super or 9x23 than a 9 MM, but there are those that like the heavy girls!
this day in age the modern hollow point can be had in about any weight especially in 9 MM that will work very effectively, the old days of a manufacture only having one caliber weight that works is long gone, design and materials of projectiles offer lots of great choices.
my 9 M and me seem to work just dandy from 92 grain projectiles up to 147 grain, normally hovering in the 115 grainers for the 9 MM and 124 for the 38 supers.
again its more about the Archer than the arrow being shot.
I still feel the best grain weight is around the 124, for this round anyways. I think they got it right the first time.
 

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I still feel the best grain weight is around the 124, for this round anyways. I think they got it right the first time.
we all gots our feelings on ammo.
but to me the 124 in the .355 is a lot like the 140 in the .357, kind of like goldilocks--not to small , not to big , just about right.
MY 38 Supers seem to handle the 124 just a tad better than the 115 , but then again at my age it could easily be my eyes or my nerves as the difference at self defense ranges(out to 25 yards) is not much.
generally the 38 Super (or 9X 23) can handle the heavier projectiles better than the 9 MM due to the added case capacity as far as performance goes.
I think that's likely why many 38 Super loads use the 130 grain where the 9 M uses the 115?
 
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8 gram bullets (124 grs.) and a 1 in 10" twist rate barrel are what Georg Luger decided on. Back when we could get bulk bullets from REM and WIN, I made some very accurate and high velocity loads with the 115 gr. JHPs. Mainly range stuff. 124 gr JHPs are mainly what we use for defense loads and they might have helped in the "Miami Shootout" of 1986. Those agents that were carrying 9mms were using the 115 gr. SilverTip which was known for its excellent expansion. Meanwhile, the Secret Service and Illinois State Police were using 115 gr. +P+ loads with the REM and Winchester standard JHPs respectively. Both had excellent street records and both were ignored by the FBI, who always know best.

When the early 147 gr. JHP SUBSONIC loads were overpenetrating, Peter Pi or CorBon wasted no time in finding a solution. Raising their velocity to 1125 FPS and adding a +P label. But by then, Martin Fackler had the FBI looking at other options.

O, I don't know about your .38 Supers, but many of their barrels are 1 in 16". That twist is also common with 9mm Custom barrels for 1911 Hi-Caps for the higher velocity 9mm Major loads where 124s and 115s are more commonly used with powders that generate a good deal of gas at the muzzle to better work their compensators.

There are, however, ways to load 147s to 165 PF without exceeding standard pressure. V-V still shows a standard pressure load with the 147 gr. XTP using 3N38 that's rated just above 1200 FPS. I don't load them that fast and I use AA #7 for its accuracy. From 115 - 147 gr. bullets, the 9mm's standard twist rate of 1 in 10" has always seemed to work well. Barrels, however, being short, it's kinda hard to determine that any one is more accurate than another. Technically, the faster twist should actually be better for the 147s, but that really depends on the load and its accuracy. As far as those guys shooting the very high velocity/pressure Major 9 loads, more often than not, 1 in 16" twist barrels are used, and compensated.;)
 
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