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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've seen it all over the internet, but Reddit is probably the best example of a shifting narrative about the revolver and specialized ammo.

In the beginning years, supposedly the Judge was a grenade and would explode after a couple hundred rounds.
They were junk, and would always break. And supposedly Taurus wouldn't fix broken firearms either. Not sure if that was even true.

Then after some quality control improvements years later the Judge turned into "just a gimmick gun. Well below average at everything. Good at nothing."

And when it came to home self-defense statements years ago, it came down to two main points.

"The spread for 410 shells is too wide for self-defense."

"The 410 doesn't penetrate up to standards out of a handgun."

Now since those two points above have proven wrong with several gel and pattern tests, now the narrative there has completely shifted to "foot-pounds of force." Now penetration doesn't kill people it's force only. And since something like the 000 buckshot force isn't crazy high, that's a highlight of why the Judge isn't a good nightstand or home defense gun, supposedly. I guess having a 400% higher chance of hitting a vital organ per trigger pull means nothing compared to a normal handgun.

Anyway, it's just insane how people have completely demonized a good firearm and the narrative is adaptable to focus on negatives only. The judge definitely had its issues in the beginning but it's far better quality now and if you can actually find ammo, it's solid all around. Even a negative like its 5 shot capacity, isn't that bad for home defense. You still get at least 20 projectiles in something like the 000 buckshot, and a single one has the potential to kill.

My opinion on it? Most people have either a shotgun or handgun, and the Judge draws comparisons of having advantages and disadvantages over both. The conversation attracts more people because the comparison field is wider.
 

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:confused:...what the heck is a Reddit? Here, it'd mean to clean something up.
 
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The general anonymity of the Internet has done more to facilitate the rise of the Experts than any other factor, including education and experience....
 

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I used to be frustrated by this as well and posted a similar thread on the subject, but since then I've stopped caring because practically every firearm/cartridge in existence has its share of detractors who just go around ignorantly bashing them all day, the Judge gets extra because it's a Taurus and it's not the latest Polymer-Framed, Striker-Fired Tactical Pterodactyl Xtreme Duty 1DR9.

Besides, I just happen to like a lot of firearms which are unpopular, so if I allowed myself to get upset over every opinionated hater, then I wouldn't be able to enjoy any of my firearms.

In reality, the Judge is a cool revolver with a lot of utility which has been successfully used in self-defense, so factually it works just fine, but that doesn't fit the hater's narrative, so they'll just keep citing those old Box O Truth reviews and Paul Harrell's biased videos on the Judge rather than citing someone like Shootingthebull410 who actually performed far more extensive testing than anyone else has, which illustrates the effectiveness of the Judge.

So yeah, haters gonna hate. As for me, I'll keep right on loving my Judge.

 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
[/QUOTE]
I used to be frustrated by this as well and posted a similar thread on the subject, but since then I've stopped caring because practically every firearm/cartridge in existence has its share of detractors who just go around ignorantly bashing them all day, the Judge gets extra because it's a Taurus and it's not the latest Polymer-Framed, Striker-Fired Tactical Pterodactyl Xtreme Duty 1DR9.

Besides, I just happen to like a lot of firearms which are unpopular, so if I allowed myself to get upset over every opinionated hater, then I wouldn't be able to enjoy any of my firearms.

In reality, the Judge is a cool revolver with a lot of utility which has been successfully used in self-defense, so factually it works just fine, but that doesn't fit the hater's narrative, so they'll just keep citing those old Box O Truth reviews and Paul Harrell's biased videos on the Judge rather than citing someone like Shootingthebull410 who actually performed far more extensive testing than anyone else has, which illustrates the effectiveness of the Judge.

So yeah, haters gonna hate. As for me, I'll keep right on loving my Judge.


Yup, but even haters like Paul Harrell was forced to test the 000 buckshot from a Judge against a .357 lol. He argued the .357 was "arguably more powerful than the 000 buckshot out of Judge." That's incredibly high praise from someone that doesn't like the Judge. And that doesn't even address the multiple wound channels each pellet makes.
 

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As I said earlier, I carry with the 5-pellet 000 Buck so if I run into a bg with a gun, I've already got 'im outnumbered 5 to 1. In all, I can send 25 rounds downrange with just five pulls of the trigger. Not seein' a single disadvantage to the Judge for SD.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
As I said earlier, I carry with the 5-pellet 000 Buck so if I run into a bg with a gun, I've already got 'im outnumbered 5 to 1. In all, I can send 25 rounds downrange with just five pulls of the trigger. Not seein' a single disadvantage to the Judge for SD.
But a 9mm etc has up to 20 rounds in a mag! More concealable! Forget that you need to pull the trigger every single time, that's not even a factor. lol
 

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Remington used to make a 140gr Multi-Ball load in .357 Mag. It was 2 000 Buck in a .357Mag case.

Average separation from my 2" Dan Wesson at 15 feet was about 1 1/2" or 2". Sometimes, the 2 ball would fuse under the acceleration of firing.

When I used a .357 as my 'door gun' at the house, it was loaded with half a dozen Remington Multi-Ball with a Safariland speedloader full of 125gr Gold Dots cached away on a shelf within arm's reach. I figured that a dozen (or so) 70gr round ball at bad breath ranges would hurt more than their feelings and, if it didn't, then I could always slam the door and throw in half a dozen Gold Dots as a follow up argument.
 
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I guess I somewhat maligned the Judge when it first came out, by saying it was an excellent ranchers handgun, and I would keep a couple of cylinders loaded with #4-6 shot for rattlesnakes and the balance with .45 for bigger critters.

Like most folks who have maligned the Judge, I had never shot one. Two friends bout the 2 1/2" models when they first came out and I did finally get to shoot both of theirs about a year apart. The first owner only had 7 1/2 birdshot, and it performed like I expected, but still oriented my thoughts to being a good ranchers gun with a very ample snakeshot round.

The second friend did have some 00 or 000 buckshot rounds, probably with handgun loads as those had began to be developed. At 10 yards, the three pellet load only had a six inch pattern, which meant you still had to aim it, and create three wound channels at center of mass.

Over a year ago, I saw a .410 Mossberg Shockwave with a birds head grip and a 14 3/8" barrel and a 26 1/2 overall length and thinking back to when I was 10 years old, said that was the most useless gun I had ever seen. Then the lightbulb came on, remembering all the development that had been done on defensive handgun loads for the Judge.

Somewhere in my feeble mind I remembered that someone had 000 loads of 5 pellets. A standard 12 gauge has only 9 pellets and a low recoil 12 gauge has only 8 pellets and they are the small 00 buck. For end of the world scenarios, I have a Russian made 12 that take pretty good capacity magazines or drums.

The 20 gauge only has offerings of #3 or #4 buckshot load by most common manufactures. I still have 49 rounds of 20 gauge that the boxes are marked 00, but cut the 50th round and put the calipers to a pellet, and they were #3 buckshot pellets.

I decided on either a .410 or a 20 gauge Shockwave as the recoil on a 12 would be pretty rough if trying to aim. I already had a couple of hundred rounds of 20 gauge buckshot, so leaned to the 20, but as always, when looking to buy a new caliber or gauge firearm, I did start buying ammo in .410 and scored a lot of defensive .410 ammo anywhere I could find it and got a good supply.

After two months of looking, I went to a gunshop on a state highway about six miles from the nearest town, and the shop had both the .410 and the 20 a customer had ordered and not paid for, and I selected the .410 because of the Buckshot size issue. I should have bought both.
 

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If you're using .410 for SD, I'd recommend staying away from those disc and other designer rounds. I tried a bunch of different ones at first and quickly learned that you have to count that plastic sleeve as a lethal projectile. Never gave it a thought until I was shooting paper, mounted on 1" thick white oak and had those things embedded all over the place. This was at seven yards and most were in a good 1/4", some almost 1/2". Worst of it is, there's no tellin' where they're gonna' go. Some followed pretty close to the shot but mostly, they went off a good foot or so in all directions. They may not actually be lethal but it's a wild projectile that could be injurious to an innocent out of the line of fire (directly, at least). Hard to tell how far they can go and still wield enough force to penetrate flesh, too much liability there as far as I'm concerned. I wasn't impressed with any of those loads anyway, buck is more accurate and a lot more lethal.
 

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I have never been a fan of the judge but I am not knocking it, I just don't want one. I have a 12 ga. 870 w/short barrel and loaded with OO buck hanging on the back of the headboard and handguns throughout the house and my every day carry is on the night stand when I go to bed. Also my little dog isn't mean but she is a hell of an alarm. If the bad guy gets through all of that then that is Gods plan.
 

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Yup, but even haters like Paul Harrell was forced to test the 000 buckshot from a Judge against a .357 lol. He argued the .357 was "arguably more powerful than the 000 buckshot out of Judge." That's incredibly high praise from someone that doesn't like the Judge. And that doesn't even address the multiple wound channels each pellet makes.
My favorite part of the video is how immediately after he finished testing the .410 000 Buck, he followed it up with a 12 Gauge, then claimed it was to illustrate the difference that barrel length could make, despite the fact that he owns a Mossberg .410 Shotgun which would have been a fair comparison.

To his credit though, in more recent videos Paul Harrell seems to be using his biased against the Judge as sort of a self-aware joke to acknowledge that he doesn't like it and that he's given it a hard time as a result.
 
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.38 special used to be the super fast hot rod wildcatter round. Blew .38 and .38 long out of the water. Now people think you need at least a .454 to hunt with and that .357 mag is not enough for deer. I've seen how a snub .38 patterns well and mulches snakes with shotshells. Stepping up to .410 is gonna be a super handy little gun.
 

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I refer to my Judge Mag as "the M2M". With the variety of loads available, it can pretty much take on anything from mouse to moose.
 

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The judge has its uses, and in those applications it is good performer. My 45Lc reloads using either Hornady XTP bullets or hard cast SWC's, it is 2" to 4" accurate at 15 yards, that is not bad. Using the buck loads developed for it also provide good coverage on the target from 10 yards, however much beyond 10 yards with buc may not result in good penetration. Birdshot is a crap shoot, but a good snake/small varmint getter at 8 yards and under. Bedside gun, farm ranch varmint gun are the two applications I use them for. Absolutely a fun gun for range and everyone wants to shoot a Judge, so its always popular.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The judge has its uses, and in those applications it is good performer. My 45Lc reloads using either Hornady XTP bullets or hard cast SWC's, it is 2" to 4" accurate at 15 yards, that is not bad. Using the buck loads developed for it also provide good coverage on the target from 10 yards, however much beyond 10 yards with buc may not result in good penetration. Birdshot is a crap shoot, but a good snake/small varmint getter at 8 yards and under. Bedside gun, farm ranch varmint gun are the two applications I use them for. Absolutely a fun gun for range and everyone wants to shoot a Judge, so its always popular.

You should be getting a fairly tight spread at ten yards. I hold within 4-5 inches at that distance for all the pellets. Even at 25 yards, I've hit everything inside a man-sized target, but I wouldn't be shooting buckshot that far out in a real situation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
My favorite part of the video is how immediately after he finished testing the .410 000 Buck, he followed it up with a 12 Gauge, then claimed it was to illustrate the difference that barrel length could make, despite the fact that he owns a Mossberg .410 Shotgun which would have been a fair comparison.

To his credit though, in more recent videos Paul Harrell seems to be using his biased against the Judge as sort of a self-aware joke to acknowledge that he doesn't like it and that he's given it a hard time as a result.
Yup, and anyone that pairs a .357 magnum against a Judge to compare stopping power has some hidden respect for it. That 357 grain he used in the comparison is no joke at all, and he barely gave the 357 the edge. Huge praise and I don't even think he realized it.
 

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A few of you mentioned Paul Harrell and I think he just hasn't come out of the closet to say he likes the Judge. He made like four videos on how much he doesn't like it which is pretty amusing to me. Deep down, I think he has one in that jacket of his.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
This is basically the negative element of the Judge

These guys do exactly what all other negative reviewers do. They buy birdshot and other silly ammo types and then call the Judge worthless. And then wonder why no one likes their content.

"You can't use the Judge for home defense!" Yet they only tested birdshot.

 
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