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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As unfortunate as it may be, as owners of Taurus firearms we have not been spared the criticism and in some harsh cases, the ridicule of owning our weapons of choice. So I decided to see how Taurus actually did on making firearms using good old fashion math. I used the information listed on this forum to come up with some rough figures that may or may not be totally accurate but are, IMHO, interesting none the less.

First of all we have 3,697 members. Lets say that on the average 3,000 of those members own an average of two Taurus firearms apiece .That would equal roughly 6,000 weapons owned by our members. It's probably higher but lets be conservative.

Now let’s look at the complaints that members have brought forward on this forums. At last count there were 109 logged topics concerning things that had gone upside down with an assortment of Taurus guns. Using the rule of thumb that many people have a problem but don’t want to talk about it, lets take that 109 and multiply it by three. That would equal 327 problems. Now do the math.

327 problems divided by 6,000 guns equals a failure rate of 5%. In other words 95% of Taurus guns work as advertised. Not bad when you take the life time warranty that other manufacturers don’t offer into consideration. I wonder how many companies out there would be happy with a 95% approval rating?
 

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Most would be very happy.
 

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Interesting stats. I'm fairly certain anyone would be happy to have a 95% approval rating.
 

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That's an interesting point of view.
I'm not sure that it is accurate enough to extract a 95% approval rating.

Your formulation would indicate a 5.5% rate of part failure, repair
or some sort of quality problem that would be of concern to the customer.
It would be nice to isolate quality problems that should have been caught at
the factory from standard part failure that is expected during the product's
service life.

A NEW item return/repair rate of 5% would get Quality Control managers at most modern US businesses fired.




I like my Taurus firearms, out of the 2 that I have, one has been trouble free,
the other has had mechanical issues within the first 500 rounds. (That's a 50% failure rate to me :)).
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Justus said:
That's an interesting point of view.
I'm not sure that it is accurate enough to extract a 95% approval rating.

Your formulation would indicate a 5.5% rate of part failure, repair
or some sort of quality problem that would be of concern to the customer.
It would be nice to isolate quality problems that should have been caught at
the factory from standard part failure that is expected during the product's
service life.

A NEW item return/repair rate of 5% would get Quality Control managers at most modern US businesses fired.




I like my Taurus firearms, out of the 2 that I have, one has been trouble free,
the other has had mechanical issues within the first 500 rounds. (That's a 50% failure rate to me :)).

Yes, no doubt this is a rather arbitrary calculation at best. It is unfortunate that your lack of success rate is 50% but others with multiple ownership have experienced a zero percent failure rate. The point I was attempting to make, though obviously not well, was that, even given a margin or error of 5%, Taurus builds a better gun than the bashers would lead the uneducated to believe. As far as the facts and figures are concerned anyone can manipulate them as they see fit. I saw fit to make us look good! :)
 

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I was hoping my post wouldn't be interpreted as negative.
I wasn't bashing your calculations or Taurus.
You ended your original post with a question, so I was adding my answer ;D


I do like my 24/7s.
I'm somewhat frugal, I don't mind replacing a small part if necessary to save a hundred bucks.
I believe the design is a good one and they just had a component
or two that needed to be tweaked to make the pistol fantastic.

It would be nice to have some actual figures that could
support one side or the other.
 

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Justus said:
...
A NEW item return/repair rate of 5% would get Quality Control managers at most modern US businesses fired.
Couldn't help but ask: Why would the QC guy get fired? HE's not the fellow building unacceptable product. He's on the hook for some of the problem, but the MAIN problem would be with the people (labor AND management) who are doing the actual building.

But more to the point, your comment raises the critical issue: what are we talking about here? The data analyzed is 'dirty' in a number of ways - self-selected (from a population of forum members which is itself self-selected), self-reported and often relates to issues with the product which may not be clear. No indictment of the original poster; just that when you start to talk about statistics, you had better be clear about your data points. Your joke about "That's a 50% failure rate to me" is a good illustration of the problem)

Definitions of 'quality' is another issue. From a distance we can generally agree what is "quality"; but once you need to get specific enough to count it, you start getting arguments. I've gone on long enough.
 

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kansas_plainsman said:
Couldn't help but ask: Why would the QC guy get fired?
Usually, the QC manager is the guy that defines the problems, sets the inspection parameters and implements the process controls.

Quality is definable.
google "six sigma"
 

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kansas_plainsman said:
but the MAIN problem would be with the people (labor AND management) who are doing the actual building.
Some companies take quality more seriously than others
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
kansas_plainsman said:
Couldn't help but ask: Why would the QC guy get fired? HE's not the fellow building unacceptable product. He's on the hook for some of the problem, but the MAIN problem would be with the people (labor AND management) who are doing the actual building.

But more to the point, your comment raises the critical issue: what are we talking about here? The data analyzed is 'dirty' in a number of ways - self-selected (from a population of forum members which is itself self-selected), self-reported and often relates to issues with the product which may not be clear. No indictment of the original poster; just that when you start to talk about statistics, you had better be clear about your data points. Your joke about "That's a 50% failure rate to me" is a good illustration of the problem)

Definitions of 'quality' is another issue. From a distance we can generally agree what is "quality"; but once you need to get specific enough to count it, you start getting arguments. I've gone on long enough.

Forget the numbers K_P because they really aren’t important. As mentioned they are arbitrary at best. Yes, from an analytical standpoint these calculations would receive an “F” in basic math 101. The point was to be a little thought provoking using the only figures available on this subject; our members and their problems. If you were to listen to the bashers, the most heavily used thread on this forum would be the complaint section. My point, again weakly submitted, was to show that the RECORDED number of complaints to number of weapons owned was, IMO, tolerably acceptable. As always, all points of view, interpretations and contrary opinions are gladly accepted.
 

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rainman said:
Using the rule of thumb that many people have a problem but don't want to talk about it, lets take that 109 and multiply it by three.
Rainman, I find the topic interesting and commend your attempt to quantify it. The only issue I take with your premise is the statement above. IMO, there are people who search out this forum specifically because they have a problem. I feel the numbers would be skewed opposite from what you proposed -- more complaints rather than less.

Good topic, none the less. :thumb:
 

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I searched this forum out and did some research on what real people had to say about the PT111 before i purchased it based on the good reviews it had from people in this forum.So i would also go as far as to say people also come on here to read what the real people of this forum have to say about a particular model.
 

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Rainman,

I didn't mean to come off attacking your points - in fact I generally agree with your perspective and think, on the whole, we Taurus shooters know a good deal when we see one. Love my Taurus guns.

I just couldn't keep my mouth shut when 'quality' and statistics were mentioned - for a number of years I worked in that area with computer technology - your comments were sane and reasonable, quite unlike what I've heard around the conference table by (usually managers) who threw those words around without understanding them. (In defense of the 'power suit crowd' I also heard a few who really DID know what they were talking about - and that was a joy and an education).

More generally, I haven't seen a message posted in this tread yet which betrayed any lack of thoughtfulness. I guess you guys are smarter than most of the folks on some of the other boards. <grin>
 

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I thought it was a positive thread.and as for the Taurus production line well think about it made in brazil for as many as there are produced there are alot of Taurus guns being sold and think life time warranty yep so it may take a bit to get your gun back if you only have one but if you have a few then well it will be back sooner or later. but its not costing you to repair and they are living up to thier word.
 

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Lets just use Troll math......

327 problems

6000 owned weapons

95% approval rate

All Tauruses suck.
 

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texastaurusguy said:
Lets just use Troll math......

327 problems

6000 owned weapons

95% approval rate

All Tauruses suck.
Dude, you owe me a new keyboard, I just spit coffee all over this one. :thumb:
 

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It's funny the way Quality Assurance/Control works. The company I work for has a few divisions throughout the country. What is a "good part" to them would qualify as scrap to us.
 

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texastaurusguy said:
Lets just use Troll math......

327 problems

6000 owned weapons

95% approval rate

All Tauruses suck.
Boy i'll argue that point... My PT140 is a rock solid dependable gun that i trust with my life.. Now my brand new 24/7 OSS is a horse of a different color, i would not trust it like that. Maybe after another 500 rounds i may at some point do so, but i have had 5 no fires with no marks on primers. It will have to show me a history of good shooting before i will trust it.
 

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Rainman,
Thank you and well done. I have often wondered what the satisfaction rate might be and thank you for taking the time to calculate it. I realize that the numbers do not represent the true percentages but are rather a representation of the experiences posted on this forum. I do believe that Vegas Guy has a valid point in that the actual numbers of satisfied customers may be higher. Call it human nature. Seems like we're more likely to complain when it doesn't work than we are to praise it when it does. When it works we feel that we got what we payed for. That is our expected outcome. When it doesn't work, it's and unexpected outcome. We feel cheated and want everyone to know.
 
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