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Discussion Starter · #81 ·
The only Sigs I own are hammer fired. I've never tried the striker fired models, but I was under the impression that the 320 was available with or without a manual safety. If that's true, why would a PD authorize pistols without safeties?
My guess is adding the use of a manual safety increases the training complexity, particularly when you're talking about dozens or hundreds of officers, compared to the simplicity, particularly under the stressful situation of an officer involved shooting, of just pulling the trigger. You don't want a cop to draw a handgun and forget to disengage the safety if the shooting starts, and you don't want one to forget to engage the safety before holstering. The first time I had to draw a handgun on someone I had already previously practiced and trained extensively with it, in stressful simulated conditions. I didn't forget to disengage it in a real life situation, in fact it wasn't even a conscious thing, more automatic, or rote.
 

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Seen it. He concludes if the trigger moves it can fire a round... duh. That's what all firearms are designed to do. The trigger will not move unless it is moved by something. A trigger that weighs a fraction of an ounce will not create the momentum needed to push back a 12, 10, 8 or even 3 lb spring unless someone pulls it or it is thrown extremely hard at the ground. Clearly in all of these "uncommanded discharge" cases, something pulled the trigger. If these cases include the pre-fix p320s, and then the fault still lies with the owner who has clearly ignored the warnings from the manufacturer to fix their firearm, free of charge.
 

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That's true, and I'm not implying that Glock or Sig is somehow to blame if an unintended discharge occurs because some thing got into the trigger guard area and caused a trigger pull. The owners of such designs of handguns should know by now that something could get into the guard area and cause the gun to fire, if the owner does not take measures to stop this from happening.

yea but you see I-- take care that that doesn't happen regardless if the weapon has a thumb safety, a de-cocker or is striker fired with out a thumb safety'
Maybe I am just old and paranoid?-- but I can still jog with two good legs. feet and i can still count to 10 wiff my fingers--which is really kind of impressive as i went to a southern public school.
 

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Seen it. He concludes if the trigger moves it can fire a round... duh. That's what all firearms are designed to do. The trigger will not move unless it is moved by something. A trigger that weighs a fraction of an ounce will not create the momentum needed to push back a 12, 10, 8 or even 3 lb spring unless someone pulls it or it is thrown extremely hard at the ground. Clearly in all of these "uncommanded discharge" cases, something pulled the trigger. If these cases include the pre-fix p320s, and then the fault still lies with the owner who has clearly ignored the warnings from the manufacturer to fix their firearm, free of charge.
Clearly? And what clear method are you using to determine that there is not a defect of design or manufacture in the firearms in question?
It is anything but "clear". Yes, firearms are amazingly reliable, but if you are claiming that there is no such thing as a defect, then you are wrong.
 
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Clearly? And what clear method are you using to determine that there is not a defect of design or manufacture in the firearms in question?
It is anything but "clear". Yes, firearms are amazingly reliable, but if you are claiming that there is no such thing as a defect, then you are wrong.
Stop changing the goalposts. These lawsuits are claiming the design is flawed and allows "uncommanded discharges" which is not the case. If they were arguing their firearm had a defect that is one thing, but they are claiming the design allows it, and that Sig knew about it. But we will never know, will we? Because sig, like every other gun manufacturer in this litigious climate, will cave and settle because they don't want bad press.
 

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Stop changing the goalposts. These lawsuits are claiming the design is flawed and allows "uncommanded discharges" which is not the case. If they were arguing their firearm had a defect that is one thing, but they are claiming the design allows it, and that Sig knew about it. But we will never know, will we? Because sig, like every other gun manufacturer in this litigious climate, will cave and settle because they don't want bad press.
Well, it seems that you know, even if we don't.
I don't have to move the goalposts. I am perfectly willing to stand by my statement without the "or manufacture" phrase.
If you are claiming that design defects never occur, then you are wrong.
Is the SIG design flawed? I don't know, but then neither do you.
 
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Sheesh, I thought the olympics were over and here comes a urination event...

You all analyze the mechanics of the pistols and the holsters and the ever-so-precise use of language and logic by other posters.

I'll be over here, not buying striker fired handguns that don't have thumb safeties, and not worrying about it. No Glocks, no Springfield XDs, no 320s...
 

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Discussion Starter · #90 ·
yea but you see I-- take care that that doesn't happen regardless if the weapon has a thumb safety, a de-cocker or is striker fired with out a thumb safety'
Maybe I am just old and paranoid?-- but I can still jog with two good legs. feet and i can still count to 10 wiff my fingers--which is really kind of impressive as i went to a southern public school.
And you're not alone. There are millions of owners of handguns like Glock that don't have an unintended discharge, at least now. In the beginning there was a painful learning curve period for LE and some others. You could probably say the same thing though on a technical level about an 80 series 1911 type pistol without the thumb safety engaged. After all, if you don't allow the trigger to somehow be pulled it shouldn't discharge either.
 

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There's a very experienced S&W & Ruger gun armorer as well as a former LEO on Youtube who is of the strong opinion that Gaston Glock forgot to design a separate safety on his pistol when it 1st came out & that's why & how the meager trigger shoe came about. Says it was probably an inexpensive afterthought.
 

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With the millions, and I mean MULTI MILLIONS of striker fired/no safety pistols in this world, how many do you read that have actually been a malfunction compared to negligent discharge?
 

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If her lawyers can prove the gun went off by itself they have a case, but all the details she is so eager to share with the public make that scenario less and less likely and negligent discharge much more likely.
I think you're right about it. Although, you should understand that there are a lot of lawyers, whom you can trust and who do their jural work not just for money, but for justice as well. Just like an example, these professionals ( url: httрs://federal-lawyer.com/minnesota/ ), from Minnesota, they have gone through a lot of really hard cases. Did you hear about their cases?
 

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“I think that this gun needs to be removed from the shelf,” Hilton Said

I'd argue it never should have been in her purse.

Even if she put it in holstered, and I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, once it goes into a purse, unless it is in a zipped pocket, all bets are off.

Did it slip out of the holster? Did something slip into the holster? Was something wrong with the holster? Was it the pistol? etc

Like others have said once it is concealed in a purse, you don't know what is going to happen or were it will point.
 
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