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Discussion Starter #1
In the process of participating with many interesting discussions on this forum, I have come to the conclusion that I personally don't believe Glocks are easy to carry and use safely. I remember saying something to the effect that the existence of a category of negligent discharge named after a gun does not give one a lot of reason to believe the gun's design is as safe as it reasonably could be.

I do not intend this thread to become an argument about Glocks. Here's what I want to discuss.

I have an XD40 subcompact. The principle difference between an XD and a Glock, from a safety standpoint, is that the XD has a beavertail safety. Now, that's useful in several ways, but how useful?

If properly manipulated, a beavertail safety can prevent NDs in the course of holstering. A pistol with a trigger bar safety can discharge if something gets inside the trigger guard while the trigger is being holstered. A beavertail safety can prevent this, but only if you hold the pistol in such a way as to avoid depressing the beavertail safety while holstering, which takes very careful thought and manipulation.

Now, in all other ways, the XD is the same as a Glock from a safety standpoint.

Agree? Disagree? Is there something I'm overlooking?


Now, if one were to divest oneself of an XD for this reason, what would be a suitable replacement? I'd be looking for a double stack .40, and it would have to have a thumb safety, preferably frame-mounted, but slide mounted isn't out of the question. External hammers would be preferable to striker fired. Compact or subcompact frame size. This leads me to think of the PT840 and maybe something from the CZ75 family. Am I overlooking other pistols that fit the criteria I've listed?


There; these questions should keep us jabbering for a while! :cool:
 

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Too bad you want .40 instead of .45. Not getting into caliber wars, but noting that Springfield makes an XD 45 with a thumb safety in both their 4 and five inch sizes. I happen to own one (five inch) and like it.
 

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When it comes to safety,. I always use the "Jeep Argument".

Back in the mid 90's or so, Jeeps were in the news and newspapers because they were unsafe, would flip over and were totally unstable.
The media reported that the high center of gravity, along with the narrow track and short wheelbase proved they were dangerous to drive.

My first vehicle was a 1981 Jeep CJ-5 Renegade. Never had any issue whatsoever with it.



But then again, I drove it like a Jeep and not like a Camaro, a full size pick up truck or a motorcycle.

Jeeps are not meant to be driven like your average car, truck or motorcycle. They are meant to be driven like a Jeep was intended to be used.


So, although I'm not on the Glock bandwagon, I am willing to bet that most Glock accidents are due to people trreting them like other guns.

I'm not crazy about not having a safety or a decocker, but if I was a patrolman on duty, I can see where a Glock would fit my needs just fine.


Try out a PT-840

It's striker fired DA/SA with a hammer
15+1 double stack
Ambidextrous 3-Position Safety - safe, fire, decocker
 

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SR 40c? As far as the XD goes I started out with one ant trained myself to push it down in to the holster in a way that makes it so that my hand doesn't touch the tang safety.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
WTry out a PT-840

It's striker fired DA/SA with a hammer
I had listed that as one of the models that came to mind.

But "striker fired with a hammer?" Isn't that like saying "an automatic transmission with a clutch?"
 

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Beretta PX4, Compact 12 rounds, sub-compact 10 rounds. Hammer fired, DA/SA. Slide mounted safety/decocker. :-\
 

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Are you looking for a reason to buy a new gun, or have you talked yourself out of the xd40? I carry an xdm 9 and have no problems with it. I have carried a revolver, and my tcp 738nas well, and neither have safeties. I like the grip safety on the Springfield personally, because if I am moving my gun around or picking it up off the nightstand, I'm most likely not using a firing grip. Now short of a malfunction of the grip safety and my brain safety, if something moves the trigger in that process, it shouldn't negligently discharge.

I say keep it and don't sweat it.
 

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The jeep analogy is a good one. The vast majority of jeep owners had no roll-over issues with their vehicles. But several reckless drivers or those who used their vehicles improperly in situations guaranteed to produce a roll over, did. Any gun, Glocks included, can produce an ND when not properly handled, safety or not. Look at the circumstances of the negligent discharges and I think you will find that they aren't as common as claimed and they are restricted to only a few circumstances.

I suggest an FNX 40 or 45. It meets all of your requirements and it is well-built and very reliable!
 
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I've wished for awhile that Glock would just stick a thumb safety on their gun, or at least offer it as an option. From a reholstering standpoint, I'm not sure the XD offers any more safety than the Glock, because the hand gyrations required to put the gun in the holster without depressing the grip safety would require a lot of muscle memory.

It's been said before and it is still true - the best safety for any gun is between your ears. Keep the finger off the trigger and everything else will work itself out. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Beretta PX4, Compact 12 rounds, sub-compact 10 rounds. Hammer fired, DA/SA. Slide mounted safety/decocker. :-\
I will never buy a Beretta. I saw some in my military service that convinced me that company cares not for the lives of our servicemen. They will never get my money.

From a reholstering standpoint, I'm not sure the XD offers any more safety than the Glock, because the hand gyrations required to put the gun in the holster without depressing the grip safety would require a lot of muscle memory.

It's been said before and it is still true - the best safety for any gun is between your ears. Keep the finger off the trigger and everything else will work itself out. ;)
I think you're right about the reholstering.

And you're absolutely right about the primary safety being between the ears. But I believe in defense in depth, and a thumb safety is a bit more depth, that I've trained with for decades. DAO would be acceptable too, but I prefer single action with thumb safety. It's easier to shoot well.
 
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You could get a Walther P99c or a S&W99c. 8 rounds of 40 in a double stack mag and a decocker. It is striker fired with a long trigger pull, however. If you choose to part with your XD, which is crazy talk, I'd like your beautifully crafted XD holsters. Just pop em in the mail to me ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
If you choose to part with your XD, which is crazy talk, I'd like your beautifully crafted XD holsters. Just pop em in the mail to me ;)
Yeah, I really don't know what I'd do about the fact that I'd no longer have use for the best looking holster I've ever made myself, and one of the best looking I've ever made, period. At least I'm certain I'm being irrational if I let that factor into the decision. :D
 
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Maybe I'm just weird but I guess I don't think holstering an Xd, XDs in my case, without engaging the tang safety is all that difficult. I get the muzzle started then I take my hand off the back part of the grip while still holding the front part and then push it the rest of the way in using my thumb up against the back of the retaining plate on the back of the slide.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Maybe I'm just weird but I guess I don't think holstering an Xd, XDs in my case, without engaging the tang safety is all that difficult. I get the muzzle started then I take my hand off the back part of the grip while still holding the front part and then push it the rest of the way in using my thumb up against the back of the retaining plate on the back of the slide.
Yeah, I'm trying it now and that works. Or you can slide the palm down onto the end of the grip, so the web between the thumb and the palm is below the beavertail.


But that still gives you a gun that comes out of the holster cocked and unlocked. But when I draw a 1911, it's always cocked and unlocked by the time the sights reach eye level...

Maybe the folks who are basically saying I'm overthinking this are right...
 

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I carry both a Glock 19 and an xds. I also carry them in the appendix position.

My personal preference is that a defensive pistol should not have a manual safety.

Carry whatever makes you feel safe. I used to worry about the safety of even my xds when I first got it. Holstering a live gun is scary at first there is no way around it.

To get rid of my fear I put some snap caps in my gun and tried to see if my gun could go off while Holstering. I came to this conclusion: my gun is only going to go off if my finger touches the trigger. Your gun has a trigger guard and it does its job. I would even stick my shirt through the trigger guard and the gun still wouldn't go off.

Train hard and keep your finger off the trigger. There's no need to rush re Holstering.
 

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Interesting topic. I recently bought a gun that may actually be more prone to negligent/accidental discharge than a Glock - a Walther PPX. I'd never fired one, but CDNN had these great deals on them. No external safety, but very easy trigger. I'm going to approach it cautiously - thinking it may be a range toy only - not a gun for SD. I'm pondering it. Like the feel of it, though.
 

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I have a Bersa UC Pro .45. It has a hammer with a decocker safety and I like it....
 
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A pistol with a trigger bar safety can discharge if something gets inside the trigger guard while the trigger is being holstered. :
I would encourage you to try this with your Glock-

most importantly try this with an unloaded weapon. Safety check multiple times to ensure there is no bullet in the chamber.

Reholster the gun wearing different clothing. Purposefully let clothing get in the holster. Imagine anyway possible something could get in the way and try Holstering without moving it. See if the gun ever goes off. You'll find out if your fear is real or in your head.

If you find it doesn't then practice the reholster and ensure its 100% clear every time and practice keeping your finger well off the trigger. It's what I did to help my fears when I first started carrying.
 
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