Taurus Firearm Forum banner

1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was watching a YouTube video from circa 1940's. IN this video Col. Rex Applegate is demoing firing the 1911.
He instructs people to use two handed grip in the "Cup and Saucer" method. As I understand it, the strong hand holds the pistol high and tight while the support hand is placed on the butt of the pistol (near the magazine) in a hortional position (like a cup and saucer).

Does anyone still use or teach this grip? Why do you, or why do you not?
Thanks
Jeremy Bays
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,504 Posts
It's a good question, but the cup and saucer grip went out of style long ago....

Still see quite a few people using though, probably because it's kind of a natural way to hang on.... just guessing though.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,504 Posts
I need to add one more thing???

I'm not they type that insists that my way is the only way or the right way while others are wrong.

Instead, whatever works for a given individual is OK with me.

That said, I can tolerate most styles, but NO "gansta style" ( turning the gun sideways). It's a dead give a way that the person is a useless punk who knows absolutely nothing and has zero skills!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,614 Posts
I was watching a YouTube video from circa 1940's. IN this video Col. Rex Applegate is demoing firing the 1911.
He instructs people to use two handed grip in the "Cup and Saucer" method. As I understand it, the strong hand holds the pistol high and tight while the support hand is placed on the butt of the pistol (near the magazine) in a hortional position (like a cup and saucer).

Does anyone still use or teach this grip? Why do you, or why do you not?
Thanks
Jeremy Bays
No, this has been abandoned. This grip is never taught today except by inexperienced people or those unwilling to change. It provides no support except to prop up the shooting hand. Most of the time, I see people with small hands using this because they are having difficulty wrapping their weak hand around their shooting hand or if they are suffering from arthritis. The correct grip is to wrap your shooting hand around the "stock" of the pistol (also called the "grip") about like you would grip a hammer while driving a nail, then wrap your support hand around your firing hand, covering it and gripping it harder. Thumbs should be relaxed and either parallel with the slide pointing toward the target or high, pointing up at the rear of the slide. the latter thumb position is typically used by shooters of the 1911 to keep the thumbs close to the thumb safety. This was taught by Col. Jeff Cooper at Gunsite. The most common today is thumbs parallel however. Each school teaches one of the two.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,652 Posts
Back in the 60s my then girl friends dad had a 1911 and taught me how to shoot it. He taught me the Cup/Saucer grip, as he said to mitigate the possibility of slide bite...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lomax

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,614 Posts
Back in the 60s my then girl friends dad had a 1911 and taught me how to shoot it. He taught me the Cup/Saucer grip, as he said to mitigate the possibility of slide bite...
Slide bite on the weak hand only occurs when the thumb is placed across the web of the firing hand. While at Front Sight, several students used this thumb placement and we're corrected by the instructors. One older woman wouldn't change. I told her she needed to move the thumb or her pistol will give her the "Ronco Treatment": sliced, diced and julienned thumb knuckle. :eek: She was wearing a bandaid before lunch. :-\ Once she got her grip corrected and lost the attitude, her groups tightened up and she showed significant improvement. To say she was thrilled is a bit of an understatement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,213 Posts
Tea-cupping gets a lot of flack for being practically useless, but in its defense, at least it serves to help keep the pistol in a steady upright position, which could at least be semi-useful when shooting a very heavy pistol or otherwise in the hands of someone with weak arms. (For lack of a better grip, of course.)

If you want to talk about truly useless gripping methods, (aside from the obvious sideways, gangsta-style grip) then talk about the old Dirty Harry-style grip in which the shooter has one hand wrapped around the pistol grip and the other around the wrist.


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I was taught the "modern" way of gripping (as described above). I was just wondering why they taught an entire WAR full of people to shoot with the "Cup and Saucer" method. We know the 1911 has been out since ....well, 1911 and the revolver was used before that, so you can not claim the gun was unfamiliar or new. It had been used for 30 years at that point.

I do know that video was teaching POINT SHOOTING so that might have something to do with it.
Thanks
Jeremy Bays
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,730 Posts
Both the Cup and Saucer and the Wrist Grab "techniques" are, from a stability perspective, pretty useless, IMO. Neither provides a better grip (stabilization) on the pistol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: darbo

·
Registered
Joined
·
954 Posts
I'm left handed and when I tried to do the double thumb forward hold with my 1911, brass occasionally bounced off my right thumb. With a Tea cup hold I don't have that problem and it also makes it easier for me to under hand a non-ambi safety.

With a revolver, depending on the frame/cylinder size, the double thumb forward hold often causes my trigger finger to contact my support hand. Don't care for that either. Then to top it off, you chance shaving off the tip of your thumb with hot lead and gas being emitted from the cylinder gap.
P1100329.JPG

With a left handed double thumb forward hold using CT laser grips, this hold also blocks the laser sight.
P1100323.JPG

If I hold my handguns by the teacup, it gives me a consistent hold for both revolvers and semi autos.

This is how to hold a sixgun.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,681 Posts
Cup & Saucer and Wrist Grab both are useless and are usually only seen in Hollywood Movies or new shooter. "IMHO" We teach the Isosceles weak hand over strong hand, knuckle to knuckle, thumb on top of thumb alongside the frame type of grip. I still like to teach the modified Weaver Stance to new shooters. This is again " my opinion" and it doesn't work for everyone. Folks that have been shooting for years have their own grips and stance which they like. Trying to teach them anything different gets them frustrated even when you can show how to better their scores. The story about the person that refused to move their thumb out of the path of the slide is common to new shooters. Even the hammers on small lightweight revolvers have caused me to drag out the first aid kit when the shooter doesn't use a propper grip.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,561 Posts
After seeing this video, and using this grip on my revolvers, I have found a new grip that I really like.


On semi-autos, I lay both thumbs down in a "thumbs forward" style of grip.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,705 Posts
Slide bite on the weak hand only occurs when the thumb is placed across the web of the firing hand. While at Front Sight, several students used this thumb placement and we're corrected by the instructors. One older woman wouldn't change. I told her she needed to move the thumb or her pistol will give her the "Ronco Treatment": sliced, diced and julienned thumb knuckle. :eek: She was wearing a bandaid before lunch. :-\ Once she got her grip corrected and lost the attitude, her groups tightened up and she showed significant improvement. To say she was thrilled is a bit of an understatement.
My pops managed to do this the first couple of times at the range with his Glock 23. He just lapsed into that thumb over wrist grip repeatedly. It's part of why he gave the Glock to my brother and only shoots wheelguns now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lomax

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,550 Posts
There is no "correct way." There is what works FOR YOU. I have trained with many styles, and they change over the years. It's interesting to hear the cup and saucer is ineffective-because it was used effectively when officers were trained to shoot a revolver to 50 and 75 yards. If a person can effectively and safely fire a handgun with his left ear, so be it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
142 Posts
I started out with the cup and saucer grip, though I never called it that. It keeps the gun stable enough for accuracy, but it's main drawback is that it does nothing to help with recoil and thus the second, third, etc shots will either be less accurate or take longer to "re-aim"... now I use a modified combat grip with my weak hand index finger in front of the trigger guard, because I use mostly small concealed carry handguns.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
380 Posts
I was taught the saucer/teacup when I went through the academy and I used it for many years even won some police combat shoots over the years. Over the years it has changed some and is now a two handed grip but the weak hand is a little lower than the right, the pinky is under the butt. I'm not bragging but I have never been ashamed of my shooting, I can shoot with about anyone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,159 Posts
I don't care if the hold the gun in your teeth and press the trigger with your big toe as long as it's consistent, reliable, accurate and repeatable. If what you're doing works for you, keep doing it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I don't care if the hold the gun in your teeth and press the trigger with your big toe as long as it's consistent, reliable, accurate and repeatable. If what you're doing works for you, keep doing it.
Never tried that, but maybe I can adapt this archery technique ....

HandstandArchery.jpg

Should work with an AR or maybe a 1911.

Thanks
Jeremy
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
17,735 Posts
I catch enough flak for my modified weaver from the isosceles guys.....
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
Top