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Discussion Starter #1
So I've been watching these:



And then I look at the chamber thickness of the 410 they used, and then I look at this:

DSC02627.JPG

Which was my grandfather's gun, so I'd never try anything odd with it, but I'm thinking another copy of this same gun could be a really amazingly versatile gun. Heck, it would be interesting to shoot a couple hundred rounds of .45 Colt through it, and carefully measure the chamber/muzzle before and after. But look at all that steel! Heck, their gun stood up to .454 Casull with no trouble!

Just tossing around crazy ideas here.
 
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Keyholing (non rifled barrel I assume) POA vs POI - not so good but - what a tough little gun!

Wouldn't some more accurate buckshot be just as useful??

That said I WOULD NOT want to be hit with that fast flying sideways Casull 330gr bullet!!! :eek:
 

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I have an old Savage bolt action that I will NOT be trying these test with, but that is really cool. I feel like the .454 would hurt a bit.
 

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That's quite a remarkable pair of videos. I had to steal these and post them on Facebook. Thanks for sharing, GhostHorse! :thumb:
 

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I don't think I would try that with just any 410. Look at how thick the chamber walls are on that break action, not so on my Savage Bolt Gun. Many pumps and double barrels also have much thinner chambers. I know people have been firing 44 Spl's and 444's in those guns for a long time but I still think it is risky. I would say they were definitely looking for trouble.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Amazing videos, aren't they SIGnoramus?

mingaa, I can see short range situations involving large animals where I'd rather have a solid 300 grain bullet than a load of buckshot, even with a cut shell. Speaking of cut shells, they have a pretty good video about that too. And their Mosin torture test videos are amazing.
 
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In the 1980's when Ruger replaced their Security Six revolvers with the thicker framed GP-100 series Smith & Wesson introduced these ads to counter them.

Granted that particular .410 withstood pressures well beyond industry standards, but "thicker" chamber walls does not "always" indicate "stronger" chamber walls.

Baring the publication of some testing lab verifying the strength of said chambers one should tread lightly.

Just because it withstood 15 or 16 high pressure rounds does not mean it won't
"disintegrate" when round 17 is fired.


 

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I wonder how many accidents will come of these videos. I think these guys are totally irresponsible for tempting people to try these loads in their Rossi single barrel or other cheap modern guns. They don't make em like this anymore and these guys should be testing/destroying the new manufactured guns, showing whether or not they will hold up under these loads, and by doing so bring this kind of dangerous testing to a suitable end. It is not in the best interest of the viewers. It does however glamorize stupid and dangerous gun handling.
 

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Well, I feel secure in knowing I will never be attacked by a 5 gallon bucket of water!
 

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Nope.

I don't shoot ammunition through a gun that it is not chambered to shoot. That's an accident waiting for a place to happen.

If I want a .454, I'll go buy a .454. I'm not shooting anything through a .410 except .410.
 
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Years ago we played with an H&R single barrel and 45 colt lead bullet loads. They would have been about the same as cow boy loads now. The bullets caught in soft dirt were under 40 caliber in diameter and all had key holed through paper at 25 yards. From memory the group for 5 rounds was about 10/12" in diameter. Was not impressed as some older guys had claimed rifle accuracy. We never got any better than a pattern. In theory the forcing cone would swag or draw the bullet down to bore diameter. Years later a friend tried again with one that had been cut to 20" and had no choke. He said the group at 25 yards was about half the size but all had still key holed. I have a .17 caliber barrel with a long taper chamber. It reduces a 22 long rifle bullet to 17 caliber. It was designed by a guy in Australia years before the 17 rimfires. Like the 45 in the 410 chamber it jacks the chamber pressure up. That is not a problem with a strong action. H&R made a single barrel a few years back with a rifled barrel that would shoot 45's or 410's. The rifled barrel shot bullets very well but scattered shot too much to be useful. I have enjoyed the small bore shotguns and we hunted birds and small game with them for years. I would now if I hunted. We also carried handguns and they took care of deer and coyote.
 

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I bought a Rossi R44 single-shot in .44 Magnum. Seems like a saner route. It does not cost much more than that NEF shotgun. Just a suggestion.
 
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Discussion Starter #15
"thicker" chamber walls does not "always" indicate "stronger" chamber walls.
Very true.

I wonder how many accidents will come of these videos. I think these guys are totally irresponsible for tempting people to try these loads in their Rossi single barrel or other cheap modern guns. They don't make em like this anymore and these guys should be testing/destroying the new manufactured guns, showing whether or not they will hold up under these loads, and by doing so bring this kind of dangerous testing to a suitable end. It is not in the best interest of the viewers. It does however glamorize stupid and dangerous gun handling.
"They don't make 'em like this any more?" Metallurgy has progressed, not regressed. The tools available to make higher precision parts faster and cheaper have proliferated. Today's guns are amazingly well built. Anyone stupid enough to watch one of these videos and go force a .454 Casull into a $150 .410 derringer was on borrowed time already. I for one am glad they made these videos.

And if - if - I did anything we're discussing here, I'd be approaching it like a research project, with at least as many safety measures in place as they had, until I was extremely sure of my conclusions.

Here's an idea!

H&R 1871 - Barrel Accessory Program

A whole lot more economical then a new set of eyes or a hand.
True, but what would you learn from that? Heck, one could set up the shotgun with a strain gauge to get actual chamber pressure readings for less than you'd spend on the shotgun!


As I said in the thread title, this is just throwing around crazy ideas. We are each responsible for our own safety, so keep your brains engaged if you go against all these safety suggestions and do anything like anything we're discussing here!
 
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Very true.



"They don't make 'em like this any more?" Metallurgy has progressed, not regressed. The tools available to make higher precision parts faster and cheaper have proliferated. Today's guns are amazingly well built. Anyone stupid enough to watch one of these videos and go force a .454 Casull into a $150 .410 derringer was on borrowed time already. I for one am glad they made these videos.

And if - if - I did anything we're discussing here, I'd be approaching it like a research project, with at least as many safety measures in place as they had, until I was extremely sure of my conclusions.



True, but what would you learn from that? Heck, one could set up the shotgun with a strain gauge to get actual chamber pressure readings for less than you'd spend on the shotgun!


As I said in the thread title, this is just throwing around crazy ideas. We are each responsible for our own safety, so keep your brains engaged if you go against all these safety suggestions and do anything like anything we're discussing here!
The problem has been said many times...you can't fix stupid. This kind of video just pushes the right button and someone dies. Modern manufacturing and metallurgy has improved a lot, true. But anyone who would fire a .454 in a cheap 410 is stupid, unless of course there is a new version of stupid.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
True; the question is, how far should we bend over backwards to keep those kind of less cerebrally endowed folks from hurting themselves? "Not very darn far" is my opinion.
 
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Over the years I have been amazed at the Darwin award winners. The lengths some have gone to with multiple tries in some cases. With some ballistic things results can be somewhat predictable. Some things that sound and look dangerous really are not. On the other end of the issue some things that seem harmless can be a problem. For example using a thin jacketed .45 bullet in a full load 454 can cause the jacket to be lost in the forcing cone section of a revolver barrel. The bullet core leaves the barrel. The next bullet hits it as an obstruction and can blow a gun. It has happened. I'm not a fan of what they did with a 454 round in a 410 for several reasons. Yes you can swag/draw a bullet down in a forcing cone type barrel. A shotgun barrel is a good example. The problem is the action in these guns is not designed for over 50,000 cup. When swag/drawing a bullet down you go from a pressure curve to a spike when it hits the forcing cone. Several years back the 17 HM-2 round came out. It runs the same pressure as a 22 long rifle and can be adapted to many actions with only a barrel change. It did not adapt well to semi autos though. Even though both rounds ran the same pressure they arrived at it differently. The 22 has a pressure curve, the 17 HM-2 has a sharp spike. The spike opened bolts on semi autos too quickly blowing case heads etc. The spike on the 454 will at some point open the action. Probably rip the welds on the barrel lug. Results will be nasty much like the 25/06 that was rechambered to the Shooting Times round a few years back. To say it came apart is an understatement. Anything done needs to be within the pressure safety range of action used. When bubba reaches the breaking point I hope he is behind something. We blew some barreled actions years ago as a test. Used over loaded rounds with plugged barrels ahead of the chambers. Barrel chunks were like shrapnel.
 

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True; the question is, how far should we bend over backwards to keep those kind of less cerebrally endowed folks from hurting themselves? "Not very darn far" is my opinion.
Best answer here is that if I saw you doing something stupid, even if you were not aware you were doing something stupid, or dangerous, I would look out for you. And I don't even know you. That is just the kind of guy I am.
 

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