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Which should i do?

  • That Cougar is a smoken deal!, the milpro can wait.

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  • Milpro is the way to go!

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  • Sell blood & other bodly fluids to buy both.

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok conundrum time people.

as i've mentioned before i was looking into a milpro for carry, been waiting for a good deal on a new one or even a used one.

Today a local dealer's June Ad came out with stoeger cougar's for sell 329.99 + tax
they have 12 in (so the ad says) and they are on clearance which make me beleive they wont be ordering any more after this.. they have both 8000 9mm and 8040 .40 for the same price your choice.

i have 350 set aside.. was hoping to get a milpro used for about 180-200 used or 275-300 new + 20-30 for a fobus holster.

i think the cougar is a good deal.. but the problem here is i dont have the money to buy both guns. so if get the cougar now i wont have money to buy a milpro if/when i find a good deal on one.

currently im carrying my pt92 but i'd rather have something smaller and the milpro looks like a good size.

so WWYD? should i grab the cougar (assuming they even have any left tomorrow) and put the milpro on back burner.. or try to forget the cougar and keep the money saved for the milpro?
 

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Grab the Cougar now. They're only going up in price and who knows how long Stoeger will make them for.

The PT-111 will stay at around the same price point and you can always get one 3,6, or 9 months from now.
 

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Get the Cougar now and work towards the Mil-Pro afterwards. Or, if you decide that you don't like the Cougar you can trade it towards the MP later.

I'd also recommend getting the Cougar in the caliber that you keep more ammo around for.

Steelheart
 

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This is like comparing apples and oranges.
Both brands and makes are fine pistols.

For a fair size comparison something along the lines of the two below pistols would be more in order.
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=6717.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=6716.0

The last link shows that smaller guns, there vagaries, and other good stuff associated with them.

The PT111 is DAO type trigger and the Cougar is a traditional DA/SA trigger pull pistol. Two different trigger types,two different types of training, and two different mindsets/dedications.

The PT111 is for those who want more round count than a snub revolver and yet have slim profile and short barrel (3 inches in length) and easy to hide gun. This is for those who have some DAO trigger experience. New users are going to need to train more with this specific trigger type to stay proficient if they are used to a DA/SA trigger type.
Barrel length on the Cougar is:
Specifications ITEM NUMBER CALIBER OVERALL LENGTH BARREL LENGTH WEIGHT UPLOADED MAG CAPACITY MSRP
31700 9mm 7.0” 3.6” 32.6 oz. 15 $449
31701 .40 S&W 7.0” 3.6” 32.4 oz. 11 $449
COMMON SPECIFICATIONS: Action: Double/Single Sights: Quick read 3-dot sight Safety/Decock Lever: Ambidextrous


Cougar 8000 is more in the class of the Taurus 911/917/909 class in size,cartridge count, and handling characteristics. The gun butt is as long as a service pistol and the mag holds 15 rounds. Just like the Taurus PT911.

The Cougar does hold 11+1 in .40 S&W. The Taurus 911 is similar.
Harder to conceal, but with the right holster and clothing it can be done. Not as big as a full size service pistol, but the gun butt is long enough where the PT111s' is shorter, thus easier to hide and ease of carry. Less potential digging into the midriff section versus the Cougar. Especially for us who are doing the Battle of the Bulge at waist level.

Since the Cougar has a more generous grip area than the PT111 ( like the Taurus 911 pistol family), it's easier to grasp with one or two hands. Has a longer sight radius making it easier to hold on the target with less wobble and makes hitting the target easier. This is particularly true with mid size and full size pistols over their smaller brethren.
Been documented by the any times in full by Chuck Taylor, Mas Ayoob, Chuck Karwan, Clint Smith, Frank James, Wiley Clapp, and a bevy of other been there done that writers and accredited shooting instructors.

The PT111 is more a specialist's gun like the snub revolver. Takes more dedication and practice to stay proficient versus Cougar. Having a PT111 Millenium Pro helps bring that home over the Ruger, SIG, and Springfield XD I own. Spending more time at the range lately with the PT111, Taurus 85CH, and the Rossi 462 just because of that. I digress. Back to the topic.

Stoeger's Cougar 8000 can fill the niche for a full size pistol if need be. So can the S&W 3913/908 series or the Kahr P9/MK9 series. These don't carry as many rounds as the Stoeger Cougar though.
For many the lack of round count is not an issue and justifiably so. For those who choose a high cap pistol,fine. For those who do not, no problem. Just be sure to carry a spare mag or two. Most people would anyway regardless of the mag round count.

So if the Stoeger Cougar meets more of the needs and fills the niche, then go with it.

If more compactness/discreetness is required and one is dedicated solely to the DAO trigger type, then go with the PT111 Millennium Pro.

An example:
I have to adjust the mindset and training when going with the PT111. Just used to traditional DA/SA pistols more than with the DAO trigger types. Then reset the mindset for shooting the DA/SA pistols. It has to be done as noted by the accredited gun instructors.

Which one fills your needs better?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
thanks qwiks thats good run down of both guns but i think you might be confused as to the purpose of the thread..

i was'nt trying to compare the guns for the same job, actually it was about only having enough money to buy one of them.

the cougar would fill no particular role.. currently carrying a pt92 so the cougar could be carried although thats primarly why i want a milpro..

the cougar just seems like a good deal "right here, right now" the money i'd be spending is actually my milpro fund i had saved up.. so even if i got a cougar it would'nt eliminate my desire to buy a milpro so neither gun is in competition for a particular job of the others.

the question is buy the cougar on sell now.. or hold off and keep the money saved for the milpro.

i also should have been clear i was going to buy a 3rd gen milpro with the DA/SA trigger; had heard less problems out of the 3rd gen milpro's and also i like the double strike ability, normally that is one of the reasons i'd go for a hammer fired gun.
 

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There's a lot of differences between the two and both are designed for seperate types of missions. For the most part anyway.That's apparent.

You did mention the gun is carried. That can or usually does signify for defense use or something similar.

Most of this is for public consumption as well as reasons as what the two types are for. it was mentioned that you wanted something smaller than the 92. Either pistol is that, but that way for specific reasons. So all that got covered as to the why,what , and how.

Reasons for getting a smaller gun are varied so that all got covered.

So if it's which to pick, go with what you want if need for a special niche is not a neccessity.

The Cougar would be easier to master for the most part by what was stated above in my post.

Usually a gun is bought to fill a niche. If not either one will do.

Since you have a 92 and are used to DA/SA pistols then the Cougar being similar in ways would be the easier and a practical route to go,if desired to do so.

If commiting to the DAO trigger concept then the PT111 is the way to go.

You can't lose either way. In theory the Cougar would be more fun to shoot and maybe used more. Goes to what uses for them both you'd have in the future as well.
If you want a challange just for the sake of it going with it, mastering small DAO guns is a way to go.

Just a lot up for consideration.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
oh no i was'nt planing on using the cougar for carry thats why i want a milpro.. if i was gonna use the cougar for carry i'd actually rather just stick with my pt92 cause it's not smaller enough for me to wanna switch to it.. the milpro on the other hand is small enough compared to my 92 that it would be worth switching to it.

yes i did mention carrying the milpro.. thats the whole reason i want one, the cougar on the other hand might get carried from time to time but would not be bought for that, i already have a pt92 i carry so neither gun is vital..

it boils down to snag a cougar at what seems to be a good deal, or get a milpro which would be easier to carry then the 92..
 

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Qwiks draw said:
If commiting to the DAO trigger concept then the PT111 is the way to go.

If you want a challange just for the sake of it going with it, mastering small DAO guns is a way to go.
FWIW, one of the things I love about my PT111 is that it --is-- an SA/DA pistol!!

Qwiks seems to keep stating that it's DAO - Far be it for me to contradict him, but... I am.

the 3rd Gen PT111 ( & the 140/145) are all SA/DA - one of the features that attracted me to them!!

Thanks..
Tim
 

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Well, joe it sounds like the Milpro will satisfy two of your wants. Possession and carry.
The Cougar satisfies one. Possession.
So, only you can know what your priorities are. Me personally, I would sell blood and body fluids and get both.
 

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I dont know if you have an academy where your at but their selling the mill-pro in 9mm,40s&w & 45acp for $299. Thats a hell of a deal. Sounds like the price is right for what your looking for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
nice, but no they dont have any stores in my state that im aware of.

ya smokey that pretty much sums it all up..

i dont really need either of them, but the milpro will serve a role.. the cougar will just be "just cause".

i might give the shop a call later, i got some stuff to do but if they still have a cougar later tonight i might drive up there and take a look.. if nothing else itll be a good excuse to visit a gun shop.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
well i bit the bullet as they say.. i got the cougar, i just stopped off home to drop the gun off cause i got other places to go and did'nt want to leave it in the trunk.

i'll be sure to post the who what when and where along with some pic's later tonight.
 

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Kind of figured that's the direction you were going Joe.

More versatility in the Cougar as for using it in general.

The PT111 can do a lot. Just not as much as the Cougar since the PT111 is the specialist gun for the most part.
 

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Qwiks draw said:
Tim K. Regardless of the SA/DA designation the PT111 Mil/pro is in the DAO class. The SA/DA is just a one in a class of similar DAO trigger types.
I guess I just can't reconcile "Double Action -ONLY-" with the MilPro's predominantly "Single Action" behavior.

Maybe it should be "DAR" Double Action Rarely!! ( I may have had -one- DA trigger pull in range work!)

:)
 

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Here I am, a newbie "Junior Member"... arguing with "Da Professor"... I'll shut up now.....
 

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I don't think there is a 'wrong' answer Tim - I think that is what Qwiks is saying......
 

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That's okay. Report to the virtual dungeon in the morning for the limp noodle cat-o-nine tails and Nerf bat floobing. Drat! Somebody lost the key to the virtual dungeon.

Actually there's still a lot out as to what constitutes a DAO trigger. Too many of the new designs mean the old DAO trigger classification are out of date or need it's own seperate sets of definitions.

Until the jury is in on a cosensus there's going to be lot of speculation and confusion of sorts.

The links on the XD and Glock triggers have the gun fire differently than say the Taurus 24/7.

Won't go into all that here.
 

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I'm kind of waiting for thr 845. I know they only have the 809 showing but i can wait.
 
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