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Hey all,

I recently have received my CCL and was wondering if anyone could recommend a good JHP bullet that is extremely reliable for a Taurus PT 111 G2? I am in need of a bullet that will be fired every single time because my life may one day depend on it. I recently purchased 2 different boxes of JHP, one being a Federal Premium Hydra Shok 150 grain, the other a Winchester 147 grain. Does anyone have experience with these 2 loads and know if they are reliable? Was also wondering if these 2 loads would be too heavy for a self defense round coming out of a 3.2 inch barrel handgun?

I am a shotgun shooter through and through and can shoot skeet with my eyes closed but when it comes to handguns I don't know much more than the basics, so I hope these questions are not too stupid.

Thanks for the help
 

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Welcome from S Florida. I second Smokewagon, Hornady Critical Defense in ALL my self defense handguns. They have been 100% reliable and yet are reasonably priced.
 

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I'm no expert but I think the 124 grain Federal HST is perfect for the 3.2" barrel according to my local gun store and range. But like others have said Hornady critical defense is good also. I have tried the sig sauer elite jhp and they run with 100% reliability and they are the cheapest self defense ammo I've seen at only $12 per box of 20. The Federal HST run about $28 for 20 and the hornady run about $25 for 20. Prices just depend on where you live though.

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I'm a fan of the Speer Gold dots myself. Less expensive and I've never had a single issue with them. I don't know how much experience you've had but since no one has mentioned it be sure to fire a couple of boxes at targets. You need to be sure it will fire reliably in YOUR gun, not someone elses G2.
 

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I'm a fan of the Speer Gold dots myself. Less expensive and I've never had a single issue with them. I don't know how much experience you've had but since no one has mentioned it be sure to fire a couple of boxes at targets. You need to be sure it will fire reliably in YOUR gun, not someone elses G2.
No matter what anyone else tells you is a good choice, you have to try them in your gun. They may be reliable in the person who recommended thems gun but not reliable at all in yours. I believe that for self defense any of the big names self defense ammos are about the same in effectiveness. Having said that, I carry Corbon 110 gr DPX in my 3" 9mm.
 

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All excellent suggestions. Critical Defense is stunningly accurate and utterly reliable. Gold Dots are the "gold standard" for personal defense ammo with HST a very close second.

Oh, and welcome to the Forum! Now, go and introduce yourself proper.
 

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Could not find any Hornady Critical Defense ammo that I usually use, so I bought some Federal HST 124 gr. It does not cycle 100% in the Kahr CM9....(larger nose than the CD with the sharp tapper), but the G2c............... ran great with HST ammo.
 

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I bought a box of Sig Sauer the other day for my 45 but I plan on shooting it at targets before asking if to save my life these semi autos can be finicky 10 to 15 thousandth make a big difference in semi was cutters. I went to the range right after I got the 45 and had to back all my test bullets deeper into the case 20 thousandth they would not cycle otherwise failure to feed and eject I couldn't believe that little made such a difference but it did and it is a shooter
 

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I no longer use any JHP in my EDC. I made that decision after doing extensive research through ballistic tests. The fact that a certain cartridge works well in a gun does not make it a good self defense round. I did my research based upon four factors:


Wound characteristics – what will the bullet do to the target.
Barrier effects on wound characteristics.
9mm Ammunition, my EDC choice.
Test results in ballistic gel barker fee and through barriers.




Unlike JHP the fluted, monolithic solid bullet bullet is solid copper thus achieving the deep penetration greater than JHP but not as severe as FMJ.


The bullet relies on hydrostatic shock to create a wound channel. The bullet is fluted, that is, its nose looks like the tip of a Phillips screwdriver head that has been ground down to a flat nose just below the tip of the nose.


The bullet penetrates barriers like metal, glass, drywall, wood, etc without being deformed, unlike JHP. When it hits the target the barriers do not significantly diminish penetration or permanent wound channel. Clothing will not stop expansion because the bullet is non expanding.


When JHP strikes bone, like a rib, it expands. That decreases penetration and length of wound channel. That reduces the incapacitation ability of the bullet. That is not the case with a monolithic bullet.


The bullets are made by Lehigh Defense, which makes it own ammo and sells ammo to Underwood and a few other ammo makers. The Lehigh bullet/ammo is called Extreme Defense. The Underwood bullet is called Extreme Defender. The Underwood is hotter and achieves greater velocity.


You can a good review of the ammo and a comparison of it with Federal HST on YouTube at [video=youtube;ClJcJ8LQFbQ]https://youtu.be/ClJcJ8LQFbQ"]https://youtu.be/ClJcJ8LQFbQ[/video]
There are other good comparisons on YouTube, but beware of the no-nothing reviews who have no idea how to evaluate ammo.


Enough said by me. Hope this post is informative.









 
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I really don’t recommend using overly penetrative ammo for your carry gun. The liabilities for where that round goes after it leaves your attacker are pretty significant, and you cannot always count on being in an environment where there is nothing behind your attacker. If a bullet hits someone other than your intended target, you are going to have a bad time in court.
 

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I really don’t recommend using overly penetrative ammo for your carry gun. The liabilities for where that round goes after it leaves your attacker are pretty significant, and you cannot always count on being in an environment where there is nothing behind your attacker. If a bullet hits someone other than your intended target, you are going to have a bad time in court.

The Underwood Extreme Defender falls within the FBI inch penetration specification. It does usually reach near the higher end limit. But that is in ballistic gel, and the human torso is much more penetration reducing than the gel. After doing many hours of research I could not find a single report of a person being harmed by a pass through of a handgun bullet. Rifles yes, but nothing on handguns.
 

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The least of my worries is over penetration if I ever have to use my gun in self defense. I would do my best to make sure I have ammo I believe would not over penetrate and also to make sure I had as safe as possible backstop (people free). From what I recall the switch to 9mm in agencies posed the most concerns to over penetration, especially with non-hollow points.

The New York Times exposed the following facts in its startling report on the matter:
“According to statistics released by the department, 15 innocent bystanders were struck by police officers using full metal jacket bullets during 1995 and 1996, the police said. Eight were hit directly, five were hit by bullets that had passed through other people and two were hit by bullets that had passed through objects,” stated the Times.
Source: https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/reloading/massad-ayoob-the-dangers-of-over-penetrating-bullets

If you are in a crowded area and some lunatic started shooting up the place from the middle of the crowd would you not take a shot to stop him because there was a crowd of people behind him? Take the shot and hit him and maybe get a pass through and hit someone else as well. Or don't take the shot and have your family or yourself gunned down as well as others.

Personally I would take the shot. This is an example of where the laws of every state should protect you from criminal and civil suit. The lunatic that was shooting up the place should be responsible for your over penetration if it happened. No different than when two people rob a store, one person shoots and kills someone, the store owner shoots and kills that person, and the other person there is charged with murder as a result of their participation in the robbery even though they did not shot anyone.

We live in a society that seems to want to protect criminals and punish law abiding people. The criminals know this and take full advantage of it. This is one of the many reasons why we have so many career criminals in this country. Yet society wants to blame guns and not the root problems. It is very sad.
 
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