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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am trying out some loads for my .44 mag SBH. Hogdon says 22 gr of 4227 is a compressed load. They do not list a min and max, only 22 gr. My question has to do with reducing the charge to 21.6 gr 4227. The reason I want to reduce the charge is so I can use the Lee pro auto disc. If I drop 2 charges using the .88 cc hole I get 21.6 gr. If I go to the next larger hole the charge will be over and since it is already a compressed load I am not willing to go over the listed load. I also suspect it would not fit. I am going to try some cast lead 240 gr bullets I got from an estate sale. Thanks for the help.
 

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22grs. is in the column for max loads, I would probably reduce it a bit more than 4/10ths to start with and work up. Maybe start out with 20gr.
 
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I'm with jimb1972, generally when only one load is listed it's a max load. SOP is reduce by 10% and work your way up. I checked several sources and that's the way I see it.
 

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I am trying out some loads for my .44 mag SBH. Hogdon says 22 gr of 4227 is a compressed load. They do not list a min and max, only 22 gr. My question has to do with reducing the charge to 21.6 gr 4227. The reason I want to reduce the charge is so I can use the Lee pro auto disc. If I drop 2 charges using the .88 cc hole I get 21.6 gr. If I go to the next larger hole the charge will be over and since it is already a compressed load I am not willing to go over the listed load. I also suspect it would not fit. I am going to try some cast lead 240 gr bullets I got from an estate sale. Thanks for the help.
I recommend reading this link Compressed Powder Loads and refer to Hodgdon Reloading Data Center - data.hodgdon.com I'm sure you are aware of the problems with reducing charges too much, in some cases it will have the same effect as loading too much when it come to presures with different burn rates of powder.

Be safe
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks Dave for the reload bench link. I pulled this info from hoddgdon's web sight. When only the max charge is listed is it safe to reduce by 10% or does that mean Only use listed data?
 

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It is important to know which 240gr cast bullet you have if you are going to load a max compressed load. Lyman lists one with a 20.7 gr starting load for Hodgdon 4227 (there is also an IMR 4227 and the data is NOT the same) and a max of 23.0. There are several different 240gr cast bullets and the design can effect length and the pressures you will achieve at the same OAL, there are reduced non-compressed loads with H4227 and I would definitely start there.
 
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Thanks Dave for the reload bench link. I pulled this info from hoddgdon's web sight. When only the max charge is listed is it safe to reduce by 10% or does that mean Only use listed data?
Ten percent should do fine, however, not knowing what 240gr. bullet you are using, the length of the case and the intended COAL to be used, the load can still be a compressed load. I personally will not reduce more than 10% below min. See if you can find loading data for the bullet (specific) as well as the powder.

Be safe
 

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Most powder when using max loads can be reduced 10% however there are some exceptions. A couple that come to mind are H110/W296 both of which are 3% as they don't play nice lower than that. There is a difference between H4227 and IMR 4227 buy the way. I just loaded some up under a Sierra 300 gr JSP with 27 grs of IMR 4227 in my 454 Casull. I finally found a pound of it and 2400 that I wanted to try as I've been using Lil'Gun for the most part.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I don't think there is any of knowing EXACTLY which bullet these are. they came in a peanut can. I will get a picture
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
this is the info from hodgdon for IMR 4227--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cartridge: 44 Remington Magnum
Load Type: Pistol
Starting Loads
[HR][/HR]
Maximum Loads
[HR][/HR]
Bullet Weight (Gr.)ManufacturerPowderBullet Diam.C.O.L.Grs.Vel. (ft/s)PressureGrs.Vel. (ft/s)Pressure
[HR][/HR]
180 GR. HDY XTP IMR IMR 4227 .430" 1.600" 27.5 1575 24,000 CUP 29.0 1708 31,200 CUP
200 GR. NOS JHP IMR IMR 4227 .429" 1.600" 25.0 1553 29,800 CUP 27.0 1686 37,800 CUP
210 GR. SIE JHC IMR IMR 4227 .430" 1.600" 25.0 1458 29,200 CUP 27.0 1624 37,600 CUP
225 GR. SPR JHP IMR IMR 4227 .429" 1.575" 23.0 1383 27,400 CUP 25.5 1537 35,700 CUP
240 GR. LSWC CAST IMR IMR 4227 .430" 1.620" 22.0C 1310 33,300 CUP
240 GR. NOS JHP IMR IMR 4227 .429" 1.600" 22.0 1301 28,400 CUP 24.0 1458 36,100 CUP
270 GR. SPR GDSP IMR IMR 4227 .429" 1.600" 20.5 1275 28,400 CUP 22.5 1425 37,400 CUP
280 GR. SFT JHP IMR IMR 4227 .430" 1.700" 20.0 1215 27,600 CUP 22.0 1373 37,800 CUP
300 GR. HDY XTP IMR IMR 4227 .430" 1.600" 18.0 1180 30,600 CUP 20.0 1312 38,600 CUP
325 GR. BTB LFN GC IMR IMR 4227 .430" 1.730" 17.0 1041 19,200 CUP 21.0C 1278 34,200 CUP
330 GR. BTB LFN GC IMR IMR 4227 .430" 1.730" 18.0 1132 25,900 CUP 20.7C 1278 34,200 CUP
355 GR. BTB LFN GC IMR IMR 4227 .430" 1.710" 17.5 1125 28,100 CUP 19.0 1223 37,800 CUP
 

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You need to lube those somehow.

Seeing as how the load you're talking about has one of the lowest listed pressure in the table, I'd be fine with going with the 21.6 gr. on the first go around. I'm guessing that's a Lee bullet (C439-240-SWC). Looks like a gas check design? If that does require a gas check, and considering their lack of lube, then these are probably unsized. Did you mic them?

In my experience gas check bullet designs without the gas check don't shoot well. You could get some gas checks and the Lee sizing die and fix that problem, then pan lube them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I pulled five of them out and they measure .431-.430-.431-.430-.430. Yes they are GC's. I weighed 20 of them today and they averaged 244 gr.
 

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Yes, those are Lee bullets and yes, they do require gas checks. They should be sized to bore diameter. You need to determine the bore diameter of the pistol and size the bullets to match to prevent leading. One thing I note is that the sprues were cut before the bullet was properly cooled. When this is done, the sprue pulls out of the base rather than cutting cleanly. This creates bullets that are not uniform in weight, impacting accuracy. You can try them but get some Hornady gas checks first.
 
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Try this for me.............try pushing one of those bullets base first through the front of cylinder. If they fall through, you don't need to size. If you can't push them through easily with moderate finger pressure then they need to be sized down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Glen I dropped them through the front of the cylinder and they literally dropped right in. Lm I will see what I can come up with on the GC's. Interesting note about the sprues I did not know that about casting. My only personal experiences with casting has been helping a friend with his Thanks for the help so far
 

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I shoot a LEE gas check 158 gr. bullet without gas checks, have not had any issue with accuracy at moderate velocity (about 750 fps) I use gas checks when I load .357 with them though.
 

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Glen I dropped them through the front of the cylinder and they literally dropped right in. Lm I will see what I can come up with on the GC's. Interesting note about the sprues I did not know that about casting. My only personal experiences with casting has been helping a friend with his Thanks for the help so far
You should be good, try pan lubing them and shoot'em without a GC. Or you could even try the Lee tumble lube. That's fast and easy. I wouldn't try to push them too hard without a gas check.

My comments about accuracy are relative. If it groups 1 3/4" at 25 yards with the gas check, and 3 1/2" without it, then that's a failure. But I can't do that any more with these old eyes anyway. But 30 years ago with the Lyman 358156 that's what happened.
 
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