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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Took my CHL class yesterday at Top Gun here in Houston, I passed the shooting proficiency with a 244 and a 90 on the written. Now I just gotta complete some info on my app and send it in.
Quick question though? I was arrested 8-9yr's ago for a bounced check I failed to payoff but was taken care of, will that be an issue with getting my app approved by the DPS? I was also arrested twice before once for a not paying a expired registration ticket and the other time for not paying a inspection ticket both have been resolved, should I be concerned about those effecting my approval by DPS? My understanding is as long as you have no felonies your ok? Those are the ONLY offense's I have ever had in my life, I've been pretty much a good boy LOL.

Thanks for any input,
Gregg
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have the Texas Gun Owners Guide and have read it about 5 times. I should have just asked if the bounced check was a misdomeanor and if so what class? I'm sure I will be ok but I start second guessing thing's alot especially if they are important.

I took the class with 2 friend's and one of them said the same thing to me about not getting to high of a score? I think the better you score the better your chance's are of not having missed shot's that can stray into an innocent bystander which would be an advantage to you than to someone who was all over the target?

Thanks for your input and support MPanova,
Gregg
 

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I was told the same thing by some fellow classmates as well. I asked the instructor how the scores worked. They told me Austin gets pass or fail, no scores on the shooting part. THey are however required to keep the scores for their records which may have a chance of getting asked for should a court case ever evolve.

The reasoning I was told for not shooting to well is because if yoiu ever have to fire and miss to hit something else, they can say that you meant to because your scores are so high, you have a lower chance of missing what you're aiming for.

I think I scored a 248.
 

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The only thing I could think of at the time for not scoring to high was, If you ever do have to shoot someone and you hit them in the face or heart or basically a one shot kill they could say you were shooting to kill not to stop, because you are such a good shot you could have shot them in a non theathal spot and stopped them and not shot them in a deadly spot , if that makes sence ???
 

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MPanova said:
The only thing I could think of at the time for not scoring to high was, If you ever do have to shoot someone and you hit them in the face or heart or basically a one shot kill they could say you were shooting to kill not to stop, because you are such a good shot you could have shot them in a non theathal spot and stopped them and not shot them in a deadly spot , if that makes sence ???
Lawyers can say what they want, but that's total BS. I will shoot for center mass and worry about the law later. You're not likely to have to worry about any such BS in criminal court, the grand jury, not if it was justified. It'd only be in civil court where some scumbag's drugged out girl friend is after more crack money that you'd have to worry about such idiotic BS. I've scored 250 out of 250 on all three of my qualifications and don't care who knows it. If some crooked lawyer with a bent nose from chasing ambulances wants to make an issue out of my ability with a handgun, I'll take my chances in court. Sounds like he's stupid enough I could pick his arguments apart on my own. LOL!
 

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Yes we are. ;)

The first bunch of Texas CHL applicants had their scores go to Austin. Those of us who got the two year license were the first renewals that got pass/fail. I did not know the qualification scores could be brought to trial.

Shoot to stop is shoot to stop. If it happens to be a kill shot so be it. It was implied in my last renewal class that DRT was easier to defend in court but who knows.
 

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Dead Right There

Up north in Mn it's been described as either a legal (ie clean) shoot or your screwed (ie bad shoot). Sounds like about the same thing.

Steelheart
 

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TX isn't shoot ot kill, it's shoot to stop[/] the attack. I guess when it boils down to it, him stopping, is prolly falling on the ground from trauma or realizing he's being shot at one.
 

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Another native Texan here as well.

Shoot to kill......well when it comes time to draw my weapon, that means that the offender has gone past a non leathal shot. I will have done everything in my power to evade the situation, turn and run, scream at the top of my lungs " Back Off", "Drop your Weapon", or what ever it takes to try to verbally end the situation. So when that part of my self defense plan has failed, I want to show proficiency in my shooting capabilities.

If you really want to look at it the way you are. Your shooting buddies at the range could be subponeaed to testify, in court, that you were not only a proficient shooter, but were well practiced, as is shown by the quantity of your trips to the range. Does that mean that you must go to the rang alone, after dark, when there is no other soul around......absolutely not. The worry of you looking like a marksman with your handgun is trivial and could easily be derailed by your good defense lawyer.

Shoot straight & keep em' in the 10 Ring!!
tex
 

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Shoot to stop ???

In our CCW class (in NM) taught by an NRA instructor, we were specifically instructed to shoot-to-kill at all times, otherwise it may be construed as criminally over-reacting to a non-lethal threat (and a surviving victim will undoubtedly testify they were just approaching to shake your hand).

That said, we were also instructed to first seek escape/exit/cover, and failing that to shout something like "Stop, or I will shoot !" (while drawing/aiming, just before firing - i.e. sufficient warning notice).

In real life, most situations happen so close and so fast, that I'd have no problem skipping the exit/cover and warning steps and proceeding directly to drop-'em-dead-in-their-tracks.

A lot of time was spent in class on how things would later sound in a courtroom. ("Better judged by twelve, than carried by six"). Sounds like state laws vary somewhat on this.
 

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What you are saying is basically the same thing.

Shooting to Stop means that you will shoot until the threat has been stopped. This does not mean that you are aiming at limbs etc. If as soon as you draw, they see the gun and throw themselves backwards trying to get away, they are nor longer a threat. If they keep coming, they are a threat and you will do what you can to stop the threat. IF as a result of their injuries they leave this world, well, that was not your intention. Just so long as you don't do anything stupid like walking up to them and executing them. Thats called murder, not self defense.

If you are decided to shoot someone, you are choosing to use lethal force. It had better be warranted. My first carry instructor put it something like this. If you shoot someone in the shoulder or leg, they will likely try and sue you over the fact that their body part didn't heal to 100% of what it was before. And with the court system the way it is now-a-days the shooter is screwed. Even more so as they tried to use lethal force vs a non-lethal threat. Just think, how many people you know with a bad shoulder/knee/elbow etc from a sports injury/car accident etc thats just never been the same since?

Or to put it another way, its not your choice whether or not the aggressor gets shot. Its their choice by what they do. They have the option to go bother someone other than you and yours. Your only objective is to go home safe.

The other reason I've heard to use the term Shoot to Stop vs Shoot to Kill is that the former sounds much better in court. You likely won't have many/any pro-gun people on the jury.

I hope I managed to clarify that some. If not say so and either me or another member will take another run at it.

Steelheart
 

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Steelheart said:
Shooting to Stop means that you will shoot until the threat has been stopped. This does not mean that you are aiming at limbs etc. If as soon as you draw, they see the gun and throw themselves backwards trying to get away, they are nor longer a threat. If they keep coming, they are a threat and you will do what you can to stop the threat. IF as a result of their injuries they leave this world, well, that was not your intention. Just so long as you don't do anything stupid like walking up to them and executing them. Thats called murder, not self defense.
That is exactly the case. Tnks for clearing that up.

This is to prevent hillbilly bob from emptying the mag for someone trying to break into his car on the street (which under TX law is a valid reason to use lethal force). Shooting them while retreating is also legal, as long as you can prove they threatened your life before hand. I was told you don't want to shoot anyone in the back though, that would look terribly bad in a court case.
 

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Actually a shot to the back would be legal IF the person was turning to shoot at you while they were walking/running away. I bring it up as its another thing my first carry instructor (the late Darrell Mulroy) said.

All this should have reinforce for everyone the need to know what's allowed under the law in the state you are currently in, not just the state you reside in.

Steelheart
 
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