[Rednekked]

I have a 2" Taurus 85 that I enjoy shooting. My go-to load is wadcutters 148gr and 5.7gr of Unique. My point of impact at 15 yards is high and left (about 6" high and 6" left). Groups are fairly tight, but in the upper left corner of the target.

As there are no adjustable sights I wonder if I alter my handloads can I change the point of impact closer to the center of the target?

I'll use wadcutters to play with and save the factory loads for self defense. Any suggestions to change the point of impact?


Thanks,
Michael

 

[glenwolde]

You can change the vertical point of impact, but not left to right. You need to speed up your bullet (heavier load), or lighten the bullet. You can even change the point of impact a little at the same velocity by switching to a different powder, but I don't think that's going to work in this case.

No offense intended here, but you might see if you can find an experienced shooter and see if it shoots left for them. If it shoots left for everybody then it needs to go back to the factory to get that fixed. But shooting left for a right handed shooter is a common shooter-error.

 

[.452dia]

The NRA Point of Impact Chart shows this being caused by heeling/pushing in other words anticipating recoil. Try loosening your grip if it affects POI.

Just a thought not a criticism.

 

[Yissnakk]

I fully agree with both of these guys here ^^^^^ but to dovetail into what Glen stated in his first section, in addition to changing the powder charge to effect a different POI you can also try different bullets and even powders. The bullet type and brand (not necessarily the name but the quality and consistency that they are manufactured with) can drastically alter POI in my meager experience. Powder type can also do this but not nearly as much as bullet type.Also, with a 2" barrel, slight variations on your grip can drastically alter the POI as well.

BIG question - does this happen with factory loads?

 

[NativeTexan]

That's a +P load if ever there was. Drop down to my load, 2.7 grains Bullseye under a 148 WC. The reduced recoil should lower point of impact. And, it's a safe load. I'm not sure yours is. Not only is 5.7 grain Unique a heavy load, but using a wadcutter which fits WELL down into the case, pressures will be even higher. I shoot 5.0 grains under a 158 SWC and THAT is a hot load. The WC is lighter, of course, but reduced case volume caused by the bullet seating so deep has to hurt.

Anyway, I'd back out of that charge. I'd be surprised if using WCs which are generally soft pure lead that you're not getting some leading, too. You don't need to push that bullet that hard. You're not shooting moose with it.

 

[NativeTexan]

I looked up WCs in my Speer number 11 manual and they don't even list unique as a powder for it. Unique is pretty ubiquitous, but generally used for hotter loads in .38, 9mm, etc. It's quite versatile, but WCs ain't the application. Unique is too bulky for that bullet and you're likely shooting a compressed load which will run pressures up on its own. My advice is to load a faster, less bulky powder like Bullseye or WW231 or such. You're load is just ALL wrong. :laugh:

Correction, they do not list Unique for the HBWC, but a bevel base WC, 5.1 grain Unique is listed as a maximum charge, which puts you over by .4 grains in the Speer number 11 which is known for its liberal powder charges.

 

[glenwolde]

That's a +P load if ever there was. Drop down to my load, 2.7 grains Bullseye under a 148 WC. The reduced recoil should lower point of impact. And, it's a safe load. I'm not sure yours is. Not only is 5.7 grain Unique a heavy load, but using a wadcutter which fits WELL down into the case, pressures will be even higher. I shoot 5.0 grains under a 158 SWC and THAT is a hot load. The WC is lighter, of course, but reduced case volume caused by the bullet seating so deep has to hurt.

Anyway, I'd back out of that charge. I'd be surprised if using WCs which are generally soft pure lead that you're not getting some leading, too. You don't need to push that bullet that hard. You're not shooting moose with it.

Could be a cast wadcutter...? We contradict each other on the POI with a lighter load. I ain't saying' it couldn't happen, maybe with a 2" barrel it could, but in my experience lighter loads print higher, as there is more "barrel time" for the bullet, the gun rises more before it leaves the barrel. But I shoot mostly 6" barrels. With a 2" maybe. One sure way to find out is try it.

 

[glenwolde]

I'm going to agree with NT on that load. I see that loading for a 150gr SWC. That's too much for even a cast lead wadcutter with it's reduced case capacity over the SWC.

 

[NativeTexan]

Could be a cast wadcutter...? We contradict each other on the POI with a lighter load. I ain't saying' it couldn't happen, maybe with a 2" barrel it could, but in my experience lighter loads print higher, as there is more "barrel time" for the bullet, the gun rises more before it leaves the barrel. But I shoot mostly 6" barrels. With a 2" maybe. One sure way to find out is try it.

Rules of thumb are subject to reality. Often, loads that produce a LOT less recoil will produce lower POI. Sometimes a faster bullet will shoot lower, especially a lighter bullet shooting faster. The best way to find out is put bullets on paper from a rest. I've seen loads do weird things. I had a Security Six that wouldn't shoot .38s well at all, about 4" at 25 yards when it'd get 1" at 25 yards with a hot .357. And, with .38s, the groups were 5" left and an inch low when sighted in dead on with my 140 JHP .357 load. Odd, eh? I got rid of that possessed Ruger and replaced it with a Taurus 66 which acts more logically. :rofl:

So, the best advice, other than lower that powder charge and/or go to a faster/less bulky powder is experiment. I know, for me that's a lot easier than for most as all I have to do is walk out on my back porch to my loading room and fire groups on my back yard range, swivel the chair around to my loading bench and load 5 more of a different charge. It used to require going to the range, shooting test loads, going home and working up more to test. I cured that problem by moving.

 

[CDR_Glock]

When I change loads it only changes point of impact for me in the vertical plane.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[NativeTexan]

When I change loads it only changes point of impact for me in the vertical plane.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

It should, that's the logical thing, but refer to my discussion of that Security Six I had. Sometimes, logic just doesn't prevail. :rofl: In that case, I decided to get rid of that demon possessed revolver which I otherwise liked and get something that acted less strangely. I'm happy with my 4" 66.

On all my .357s and my .45 colt, I have marks on the elevation screw and adjust it according to the load I'm firing. Usually, the elevation screw needs to drop the sight for a hotter load, but on my 3" 66, there ain't 1" difference in POI between a light .38 and a hot .357. I love that gun. I never bother with the sight on it. I had another revolver like that, a Ruger SP101, shot the same with .38 WC as it did with a 165 grain hot .357 magnum. Those demons I rather liked. :rofl:

There are no hard and fast rules regarding POA/POI and load that cannot be broken by a demonic firearm.

 

[Fishinkeylargo]

In short barrels changing left to right POI is highly unlikely by changing components. In rifles due to barrel harmonics it is quite possible to shift POI left and right.

Already asked, does it happen with factory ammo?
Already asked, does it happen with other shooters?
Have you tried shooting from a rest of some type?

 

[Peacemakr40]

Just move your target up and left by 6" then you should be all set

 

[NativeTexan]

Just move your target up and left by 6" then you should be all set

You've been seeing Rickenbacher39's therapist?

 

[Rednekked]

I have to admit - those wadcutters were originally for my 686 that was stolen 15 years ago. (I kinda thought they were a bit hot for a small gun!)
I'm now loading 3.5 of HP38 and BBWCs. Haven't had a chance to try them - rain and cold (well, cold for south Texas).
Factory loads shoot high and left too, but I did notice that any change in grip changed the POI.
I'm not too worried about it shooting left. My usual carry is a 1911 Kimber. I only have the small gun when I want a change.

I'll let you know how the new load performs.

Michael

 

[NativeTexan]

Well, that shooting left might well be shooter induced if you haven't benched it for testing. And, with small guns like that, how tight you grip it can have an effect on elevation.

Yeah, this stuff blew in on us yesterday and it's drizzling rain all day, or supposed to. A neighbor down the road has an old maintainer and started working to smooth the road out, but was about half way through when the rain started. Now it's sloppy, passable, but I'm expecting an order shipment from Fedex and I don't think he wants to take his truck down the road. He didn't deliver yesterday. Ah, but it's not a gun related shipment. :laugh: It was 40 degrees when I got up. That's DANGED COLD for south Texas. But, I'm nearly into central Texas, so not exactly Brownsville. :lol:

Good luck. If you were around here, I'd invite you over (if you wanted to brave the road) to shoot off my back porch.

 

[Yissnakk]

You've been seeing Rickenbacher39's therapist?

Now THAT made me laugh!

 

[Peacemakr40]

Now THAT made me laugh!

Well I didn't. I still have to pay the bill.

 

[onespeedbiker]

I have a Model 65 (with fixed sights) that consistently shot 2 inches right at 7 yards. My response was to move the sights left with a file and J_B weld. while this will ruin any resale plans (of which I have none) it now shoots dead center out to 25 yards.