Carrying on an empty chamber

15929 Views 161 Replies 66 Participants Last post by Nick81, Dec 27, 2018

Ralph_Kirk

Discussion Starter · Jul 30, 2018

I just happened to be perusing some YouTube videos on the issue of carrying a semi-auto with the chamber empty.

It seems like everyone's first thought is to carry an empty chamber, then they have to learn otherwise later.

I have to say that at no point in time did it ever occur to me that carrying with an empty chamber made any sense. The question never even entered my mind that maybe the chamber should be empty.

Now, coming from a military background, I'm aware of the practice for soldiers. I'm also aware that the military 1911, the Browning Hi-Power, and the Beretta 92 also had really tiny and/or poorly positioned safety levers, so the difference in the real-world ability to get the safety disengaged under stress might not have been any different from racking the slide. Also, when coming back to garrison, a chamber that is already empty makes it less likely a soldier is going to make a mistake unloading the gun.

And maybe soldiers cheated anyway. I would have, going into combat.

It seemed to me that if a person was really worried about a negligent discharge whit the minimum of handling that should happen while carrying, then that person should get a gun with a manual safety. If safety is that much of a concern, a manual safety seems far smarter to me than an empty chamber.

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1 - 20 of 162 Posts

G8R8U2

· #2 · Jul 30, 2018

Every time I see this debate I want to scream, "What if you've already been shot or your arm has been injured?!!!". Just like you better be able to reach your gun with either hand.

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TexasAviator

· #3 · Jul 30, 2018

I think its just a comfort level. The more they get comfortable they then migrate to different ways of carrying.

I look at it like people who start driving small vehicles or flying small aircraft then as they get comfortable they move to larger vehicles. Some never get comfortable enough to move up in size. Just like some never get comfortable to carry with a loaded chamber.

Personally; I only carry with loaded chambers. Whether or not my firearm has a manual safety.

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jtg452

· #4 · Jul 30, 2018

Condition 3 carry: The closest thing you can get to being unarmed without actually being unarmed.

Put me down as 'Not a Fan.'

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NativeTexan

· #5 · Jul 30, 2018

There is a thread floating around on this subject already. I guess I should try to find it and merge it.

Years ago I carried a cheap RG M26, a 25ACP, condition three. It was a cheap striker gun and I didn't trust it so close to my boys.

Actually, I usually carried it in a back pocket with a check book over it. It was little and cheap if I had to ditch it. There was no legal carry back then in Texas. Was a class A misdemeanor. Better judged by 12 than carried by 6, right? :laugh:

I had to pull that gun on a guy with a knife once. Racking the slide was second nature for me and quite fast. The guy ran off down an alley, the gun did its job far as I'm concerned. Praise the Lord I didn't have to shoot the guy. Now days, I carry condition one or two. Condition two is because it's either a revolver or a DA with a decocker or a DAO.

I only have one single action striker gun with a safety, a PT145. The PT145 is much better quality than an RG. :rofl: I carry it condition one.

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texastaurusguy

· #6 · Jul 30, 2018

It's definitely a comfort level thing. I once read something in a gun mag that closed the deal for me, many years ago. It was an article on practicing racking your slide with one hand. The supposition was, that you had broken an arm or one arm was incapacitated in some way. The only real way to rack a slide in that situation is to do something such as catch the front sight on a belt loop and push down, or put the gun between your legs and rack it with your good hand, things like that. I'm sure you can get good at it, or decent at least, but man it's no fun at all. And, I wouldn't even want to think about dealing with a stovepipe or jam if you were down to only one good hand.

The entire article kinda highlighted for me that I should carry with one in the pipe, and get comfortable with it.

Reactions: 5

Smokewagon

· #7 · Jul 30, 2018

Carrying with an empty chamber, (semi-auto), you're carrying an unloaded gun. But the first rule is, that you have a gun. And if you're comfortable with that, I say, Carry On!

Reactions: 5

Billy the Taurus-man

· #8 · Jul 30, 2018

When I carry my Kimber UC II, she's in condition 1. Otherwise, I'm carrying the m605 snubby with all five chambers loaded with JHP 357 mag rounds. I practice with snap caps so I can disengage the safety with my eyes closed.

RetiredMP

· #9 · Jul 31, 2018 (Edited)

I was a US Army Military Policeman for over 20 years.
DA policy was duty weapon (.45) was to be carried with no round in the chamber, magazine inserted.
Every time I left the arms room (at the clearing barrel) I did a "function check", jacked a round in the chamber and lowered the hammer.
Never hand an issue (don't ask/don't tell).
If I had been caught by somebody in my chain of command, I would have Courts Marshaled.
But then again, as team leader of x2 SRT's (Special Reaction Teams), on an alert I carried my MP5SD and my .45....cocked & locked w/round in both chambers.
<Ret.MP>

Reactions: 4

Taurus1965

· #10 · Jul 31, 2018

Have never and will never !

GhostHorse

· #11 · Jul 31, 2018

One of the most famous proponents of condition 3 is the Israeli military. I had occasion to shoot with someone trained and experienced in that method. Granted, I believe it had been a while. But it didn't go nearly well enough to make me reconsider my opinion of condition 3.

Cocked and locked, or DA action. That's how I carry. One hand is all you should need.

Reactions: 5

slong115

· #12 · Jul 31, 2018

If I were apprehensive about carrying a semi-auto with one in the pipe, I would carry a revolver. Oh, wait......I already do carry revolvers exclusively. But I don't do it because I worry about a semi-auto with a round chambered, I just prefer revolvers. I have 3 semi-autos but one thing I will not do is carry a striker-fired auto that does not have an external safety. I realize that countless people carry striker-fired autos chambered with absolutely no problems......but I am personally not comfortable with that at all. I have read about too many negligent discharges happening that way. Whether or not I trust the striker-fired weapon that has no safety is not the point. At 66 yrs old, I don't trust ME carrying one.

Come to think of it, I have been carrying concealed off/on for going on 41 years and almost all of that has been with revolvers. I figure the odds of me having a negligent discharge with a "Glock-type" weapon is greater than the odds of me running into a group of bad guys that will require me to fire more than 5-6 rounds.

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NativeTexan

· #13 · Jul 31, 2018

slong115 said:
If I were apprehensive about carrying a semi-auto with one in the pipe, I would carry a revolver. Oh, wait......I already do carry revolvers exclusively. But I don't do it because I worry about a semi-auto with a round chambered, I just prefer revolvers. I have 3 semi-autos but one thing I will not do is carry a striker-fired auto that does not have an external safety. I realize that countless people carry striker-fired autos chambered with absolutely no problems......but I am personally not comfortable with that at all. I have read about too many negligent discharges happening that way. Whether or not I trust the striker-fired weapon that has no safety is not the point. At 66 yrs old, I don't trust ME carrying one.

Come to think of it, I have been carrying concealed off/on for going on 41 years and almost all of that has been with revolvers. I figure the odds of me having a negligent discharge with a "Glock-type" weapon is greater than the odds of me running into a group of bad guys that will require me to fire more than 5-6 rounds.

We think a lot alike in this regard.

Safety is THE big attraction to revolvers to me, but also they're faster up close and personal and point more natural for me. I figure up close and personal is likely to be the scenario in which I'd need it.

Reactions: 4

FLShutterbug

· #14 · Jul 31, 2018

I only carry with a fully loaded firearm which means one in the chamber and a topped off magazine. I want as many rounds available as possible for what I'm carrying and I want to be able to draw and start slinging lead without taking the time to load one into the chamber.

Reactions: 5

Hunter360

· #15 · Jul 31, 2018

I am going to go against the status quo here. I have a Gen 1 Millennium that I use as my go to practice firearm. I carry a Glock 26 that is my EDC. They are vey similar weapons in handling and accuracy....with the edge going to the Glock. Nothing against the Taurus. I just choose to trust my life to the Glock..... and my Taurus to practice

I work in a target rich government office and my everyday attire makes an ankle rig my only viable option. After MANY simulations timing my reaction time from perceived threat to target acquisition, I loose about .15 seconds incorporating the slide rack as I move from ankle to sight picture. Plus....no thumb safety on the Glock so that potential FTF is removed from the equation.

Reactions: 3

jtg452

· #16 · Jul 31, 2018

Hunter360 said:
... no thumb safety on the Glock so that potential FTF is removed from the equation.

Sorry, ain't buying it.

Not to be nasty about it, BUT if your muscle memory hasn't built up enough so that your hands just 'know' what you need to do to make the gun you have chosen to bet your life on go BANG!, then maybe you need to spend a LOT more time shooting it and a LOT less time just toting it.

Reactions: 2

NativeTexan

· #17 · Jul 31, 2018

Hunter360 said:
I am going to go against the status quo here. I have a Gen 1 Millennium that I use as my go to practice firearm. I carry a Glock 26 that is my EDC. They are vey similar weapons in handling and accuracy....with the edge going to the Glock. Nothing against the Taurus. I just choose to trust my life to the Glock..... and my Taurus to practice

I work in a target rich government office and my everyday attire makes an ankle rig my only viable option. After MANY simulations timing my reaction time from perceived threat to target acquisition, I loose about .15 seconds incorporating the slide rack as I move from ankle to sight picture. Plus....no thumb safety on the Glock so that potential FTF is removed from the equation.

Well, if I carried a Glock, no matter where or how, it'd be condition 3. My body parts work best without holes in 'em.

Reactions: 5

1942bull

· #18 · Jul 31, 2018

RetiredMP said:
I was a US Army Military Policeman for over 20 years.
DA policy was duty weapon (.45) was to be carried with no round in the chamber, magazine inserted.
Every time I left the arms room (at the clearing barrel) I did a "function check", jacked a round in the chamber and lowered the hammer.
Never hand an issue (don't ask/don't tell).
If I had been caught by somebody in my chain of command, I would have Courts Marshaled.
But then again, as team leader of x2 SRT's (Special Reaction Teams), on an alert I carried my MP5SD and my .45....cocked & locked w/round in both chambers.
<Ret.MP>

I was a combat photographer in Nam. As an E6 I could and did Carry an M1911 since my job was to shoot cameras, and I only needed a weapon in limited situations where iI was in the company of Many men with M16s. In the field I and many others chambered a round in the pistol. The reason we ever got brought up on charges was because all the field officers were doing the same thing. If they brought anyone of us up on charges it would have put a lot of officers in jeopardy. My experience was real not theoretical. From it I learned to always have a chambered round in a semi.

Reactions: 4

Smokewagon

· #19 · Jul 31, 2018

Hunter360 said:
After MANY simulations timing my reaction time from perceived threat to target acquisition, I loose about .15 seconds incorporating the slide rack as I move from ankle to sight picture.

If you don't already, I hope you have incorporated racking the slide with only one hand and arm in your practice simulations. There are techniques for doing so, and it can and has happened to others.
This is not only good for those that choose to carry without one in the chamber, but everyone that carries a semi-auto. You never know what kind of situation you may find yourself in.

Reactions: 4

ICUKev

· #20 · Jul 31, 2018

TexasAviator said:
I think its just a comfort level. The more they get comfortable they then migrate to different ways of carrying.

I look at it like people who start driving small vehicles or flying small aircraft then as they get comfortable they move to larger vehicles. Some never get comfortable enough to move up in size. Just like some never get comfortable to carry with a loaded chamber.

Personally; I only carry with loaded chambers. Whether or not my firearm has a manual safety.

Comfort level exactly. I started like that but know others that still believe that empty is the right way. All I can say is carry either way you like. That just means more of us are armed. Alot of times, no shots are fired to stop a threat (they see it and run away).

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