Bring the PT57 to the US.
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They used to sell millenniums and TCP's in .32; but if I had to guess I'd say they probably don't think it'd sell well here with most Americans thinking the bare minimum for adequate self-defense is .380... and they can build those .380's in frames just as small as the .32's.
In other parts of the world 7.65 mm is historically a pretty popular caliber, even in larger frame guns like that 57.
They still sell .22LR's and .25 ACP's, though; but they're very small compacts that they probably figure folks only use as backups.
In other parts of the world 7.65 mm is historically a pretty popular caliber, even in larger frame guns like that 57.
They still sell .22LR's and .25 ACP's, though; but they're very small compacts that they probably figure folks only use as backups.
In a country where even .380 is considered "too light" a caliber in anything but the smallest of guns used for self-defense, what's the marketing advantage? Please note that Taurus DID produce, and market a gun in .32 ACP here, the PT732. It was NEVER a "hot selling item". When it was available, nobody here was championing it as "the answer".
The PT57 is the same size as a the older PT58. That, as well, was discontinued as buyers demanded smaller platforms for the .380 ACP. They are a business. Producing a poor selling item isn't in any business model of today.
Many other countries restrict the sale of "military calibers" to their populations. In many places that includes the .380, and the .38 Special, along with anything heavier. In those countries, the .32 ACP, especially in higher capacity garb, is the best a civilian can legally do. That might be considered a clue as to why they sell so well in those countries.
Today, Beretta sells the 3032 Tomcat, Signal the Reliant 9 (a four barrel oddity like the old COP), Kel-Tec the P32, and Seecamp the LWS32. None of these are "flying off the shelf". Or even laying on many stores shelves.
SAAMI pressures are 20,500 PSI, 1000 PSI LOWER than the .380 ACP, and there is no +P pressure rating formalized. The actual case is the same length as the .380, as well. 17.3 mm. That means that grip for both guns has to accommodate the same length cartridge as the .380 ACP, as well.
Maybe, if we actually contact Taurus with the request, along with threads here, they would listen. I just wouldn't hold my breath.
The PT57 is the same size as a the older PT58. That, as well, was discontinued as buyers demanded smaller platforms for the .380 ACP. They are a business. Producing a poor selling item isn't in any business model of today.
Many other countries restrict the sale of "military calibers" to their populations. In many places that includes the .380, and the .38 Special, along with anything heavier. In those countries, the .32 ACP, especially in higher capacity garb, is the best a civilian can legally do. That might be considered a clue as to why they sell so well in those countries.
Today, Beretta sells the 3032 Tomcat, Signal the Reliant 9 (a four barrel oddity like the old COP), Kel-Tec the P32, and Seecamp the LWS32. None of these are "flying off the shelf". Or even laying on many stores shelves.
SAAMI pressures are 20,500 PSI, 1000 PSI LOWER than the .380 ACP, and there is no +P pressure rating formalized. The actual case is the same length as the .380, as well. 17.3 mm. That means that grip for both guns has to accommodate the same length cartridge as the .380 ACP, as well.
Maybe, if we actually contact Taurus with the request, along with threads here, they would listen. I just wouldn't hold my breath.
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I've always liked the family of .32 options. Long, ACP, Mag...... But, they never do well here. (USA) . We seem to be a nation of 9mm/.45ACP or .357/38spcl. Even the .40 is starting to deminish a bit. (.380 is included in 9mm/38spcl). I guess I should add the .22LR. We Americans love the little .22 as well.
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It's all about the money for manufacturers, what can they sell the most is what they build & market.
Currently, we live in a state where you can't carry so small concealed firearms don't hold as much interest for us as a target/range piece. . .but we are the exception. I have a hankering to own a larger 32acp pistol. The 732 is nice for carry, but a range gun it is not. I would love a PT 57, most likely, as I love my PT58! Usually, smaller calibers in larger platforms yield better accuracy at longer distances.
Currently, we live in a state where you can't carry so small concealed firearms don't hold as much interest for us as a target/range piece. . .but we are the exception. I have a hankering to own a larger 32acp pistol. The 732 is nice for carry, but a range gun it is not. I would love a PT 57, most likely, as I love my PT58! Usually, smaller calibers in larger platforms yield better accuracy at longer distances.
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I would be happy if they were made available by special order. My last resort may be to try to find a Bersa Thunder .32 which looks similar except for that nasty safety on the slide. They're getting a little hard to find now also.
I have absolutely NO desire to own a TCP, PT732, Beretta Tomcat, Seecamp LWS, or ANY Kel-Tec. They are all as generic, classless, and lame as the modern offering of cars that are mostly all generic, classless, lame, and indistinguishable one from the other unless you can see the name plate .
As far as the PT22 and PT25, I picked up a PT22 once and my LGS tells me they are a hot item right now. However, for me, it was like picking up a red hot horse shoe...didn't take long to put it down......
![Men in Black Cricket 01.jpg]()
Why would I want an 8+1 poly frame PT22 when I can get a much better looking 10+1 alloy frame Bersa Thunder 22 for close to the same price?
I have absolutely NO desire to own a TCP, PT732, Beretta Tomcat, Seecamp LWS, or ANY Kel-Tec. They are all as generic, classless, and lame as the modern offering of cars that are mostly all generic, classless, lame, and indistinguishable one from the other unless you can see the name plate .
As far as the PT22 and PT25, I picked up a PT22 once and my LGS tells me they are a hot item right now. However, for me, it was like picking up a red hot horse shoe...didn't take long to put it down......
Why would I want an 8+1 poly frame PT22 when I can get a much better looking 10+1 alloy frame Bersa Thunder 22 for close to the same price?
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Because with firearms, it's never either/or - it's get 'em both!!!
I think the PT22 and the Bersa thunder 22 are different enough that they require their Own representatives in our safe! Also, the Bersa 22, no matter how much I like it, is a bit of a spoiled child as it only eats certain brands of 22 successfully. For the other brands, I have springs that I've adjusted for each of these particular brands of ammo - but the trade off is accuracy.
A Bersa 32 would be a WONDERFUL find! I wish you the best of luck...'cause I'm still looking, too!
And I have to say that I've always loved that part of the Men in Black movie with Will Smith and the Little Cricket!
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I think Taurus sells the .32ACP overseas and not in the United States because here
in the good ole US there is not much of a perceived market for this caliber. In
Europe, the .32 is a very popular caliber, especially among target shooters. Here,
we think of stopping power and self defense applications when choosing a handgun
in most cases and the .32 is underpowered in a full sized pistol compared to many
of the other calibers. Most of the pistols on the US market that shoot .32ACP are
older guns and manufacturers here do not have many offerings in the market.
I think Taurus probably feels it will stick to what they already have here.
in the good ole US there is not much of a perceived market for this caliber. In
Europe, the .32 is a very popular caliber, especially among target shooters. Here,
we think of stopping power and self defense applications when choosing a handgun
in most cases and the .32 is underpowered in a full sized pistol compared to many
of the other calibers. Most of the pistols on the US market that shoot .32ACP are
older guns and manufacturers here do not have many offerings in the market.
I think Taurus probably feels it will stick to what they already have here.
Really? Your opinion is a little funny, as the PT57 is the SAME in appearance, and operation, as the PT58. Isn't that an example of generic, classless, and lame? Please, tell me, or better, show me, how the Beretta 3032 looks so like any other offering so as to need a nameplate. The same can be asked about the Seecamp.
Fact is, MOST .32s were/are also available as .380s. What you like, or dislike is your OPINION. Something that everyone has, along with other things. Nobody had mentioned looks, lame or otherwise, until you decided to lash out. Thank you for sharing your OPINION. Can we now actually return to the thread?
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I am WELL aware what the PT57 is. You suggested alternatives and I'm not interested in alternative, nor am I interested in SAAMI specs and ++++++P ratings. I'm interested in a specific style of gun, in various calibers, preferably stainless and alloy, for a collection. The Beretta 81 Cheetah might fit, but not at $700+ for a blued finish when the PT57 sells all over the world (except in the U.S.) for $400 or less.Really? Your opinion is a little funny, as the PT57 is the SAME in appearance, and operation, as the PT58. Isn't that an example of generic, classless, and lame? Please, tell me, or better, show me, how the Beretta 3032 looks so like any other offering so as to need a nameplate. The same can be asked about the Seecamp.
Fact is, MOST .32s were/are also available as .380s. What you like, or dislike is your OPINION. Something that everyone has, along with other things. Nobody had mentioned looks, lame or otherwise, until you decided to lash out. Thank you for sharing your OPINION. Can we now actually return to the thread?
The Seecamp might be OK if I had hands the size of my 5 year old granddaughter's, and it wasn't so ugly. And the Beretta 3032 appears to be a glorified PT22/25 with a tip up barrel and a $500 price tag. And the Kel-Tec is.....a Kel-Tec. Maybe I should try a Jimenez JA32?
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No, I did NOT suggest alternatives. I listed what was currently available as an example of just how FEW marketable .32 ACP guns are available. I didn't list the Jimenez because I only wanted to mention guns that were actually available widely.
As to prices, if you want, as you suggested, a "special order gun" , available in "in various calibers, preferably stainless and alloy", the prices are going to be WELL above the $400 mark. It will require BATFE and State Department paperwork and approval before the line can be imported by Taurus. Then, it's going to have to be approved by the various State Boards, as in New York, Maryland, Massachusetts, and California. All of that costs money. The price will reflect that money. Some could be avoided by manufacturing it here in America, but that, also, is going to require machinery, or importation of parts and assembly here. That, as well, won't be free.
Then, there's the fact that Taurus has been pushing ever deeper into polymer framed guns, and away from alloy frames, in much of what they import, or build, here.
Jan Libourel reviewed a PT57 back in the early 1980's. He had received one from Taurus Brazil. He found it to simply be a smaller caliber clone of the PT58. Even back then, his opinion was that it would never sell here because of that. Apparently, the manufacturer agreed.
The Model PT57 is an example of an entire family of guns that needed laser engraving to tell them apart. Somehow, in their case, that's different.
I wish you luck in your endeavor. You'll need it.
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The PT57 is a great idea. It's not just for the ladies. Some of us "manly men" want one too.
As I get older the .32ACP guns are my go to for a lot of reasons. Having a shootable and user friendly gun to fill the needs are a must and and the .32 ACP pistols of various sizes fill that niche. A lot of us senior citizens and ladies need something along those lines. If one is not into guns and needs a cartridge and ammo combo that can work for them the .32ACP pistols have a lot to offer.
Recoil is mild, especially compared to a lot of .380 ACP mini pistols. That's been documented for the last few years by shooting public and the gun writers who've been there and done that. No, the .32ACP is no power house but all handgun cartridges for personal protection are weak. No magic bullets or calibers.
Needed back up shots means using a cartridge in which getting the handgun back down on target quickly is needed. That is if follow up shots are needed. Not going to assume anything with that.
Beretta has been selling the model 81 recently and for awhile though they are becoming more scarce for a number of reasons I will not go into. The PT57 if available would have been a great choice imho.
I still shot my larger caliber guns but the day is coming when that is not going to be so. For some of you this is true as well. That is why I kept my Taurus PT132 Pros, have several .32 ACP mouse guns, and have a Beretta 81. If it works for you fine. If you others go with something else, fine.
Should I run into a problem where extra ammo is needed the Beretta and Mil Pros have that covered. There is also a slight velocity boost from the longer barrels.
Carrying these guns is easier on me and my hide.
I still prefer to use my Tauri in 9x19. I just have to be ready for things"further in the future" so do by going with the .32ACP guns.
The Taurus PT57 would be a nice addition to most shooter's gun battery.
Go with what works for you.
Some of us "manly men" want one too. As I get older the .32ACP guns are my go to for a lot of reasons. Having a shootable and user friendly gun to fill the needs are a must and and the .32 ACP pistols of various sizes fill that niche. A lot of us senior citizens and ladies need something along those lines. If one is not into guns and needs a cartridge and ammo combo that can work for them the .32ACP pistols have a lot to offer.
Recoil is mild, especially compared to a lot of .380 ACP mini pistols. That's been documented for the last few years by shooting public and the gun writers who've been there and done that. No, the .32ACP is no power house but all handgun cartridges for personal protection are weak. No magic bullets or calibers.
Needed back up shots means using a cartridge in which getting the handgun back down on target quickly is needed. That is if follow up shots are needed. Not going to assume anything with that.
Beretta has been selling the model 81 recently and for awhile though they are becoming more scarce for a number of reasons I will not go into. The PT57 if available would have been a great choice imho.
I still shot my larger caliber guns but the day is coming when that is not going to be so. For some of you this is true as well. That is why I kept my Taurus PT132 Pros, have several .32 ACP mouse guns, and have a Beretta 81. If it works for you fine. If you others go with something else, fine.
Should I run into a problem where extra ammo is needed the Beretta and Mil Pros have that covered. There is also a slight velocity boost from the longer barrels.
Carrying these guns is easier on me and my hide.
I still prefer to use my Tauri in 9x19. I just have to be ready for things"further in the future" so do by going with the .32ACP guns.
The Taurus PT57 would be a nice addition to most shooter's gun battery.
Go with what works for you.
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Oh, yes. As an example requesting that gun companies make a certain model is offered one has to keep at them quite frequently. One may have this come to naught, but by not requesting this means your voice, wants, and needs are not heard and therefore go unheeded.
Smart gun companies listen to their customers.
Smart gun companies listen to their customers.
Apparently not. The 1911 of today is now more of a platform than a single gun. Also, while many manufacturers make a 1911, they do so to emulate the original. Sort of like claiming that all revolvers are alike based on looks. After all, they ALL have a revolving cylinder.
Settle for that similar Bersa if you wish. I'm certain that, in your world, that isn't the same as those other classless, lame, and indistinguishable guns you allude to.
I do agree with Qwik's-draw. You need to contact Taurus. That, however, isn't quite the same as asking here, and then becoming upset with any answer but one agreeing. Actually, you may be able to fulfill your .32 ACP, open slide, Holy Grail on the used market. There are used Beretta Model 81,82,70, and Model 1935s available. The Mauser Model 1914 as well. All of these are open slide, .32 ACP, guns.
Just a thought.
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You are correct. I was thinking of the Bersa Thunder .380 which has a really awkward slide mounted safety.
BTW, your picture is not of the Cheetah 81, it's of the Bersa Lusber 84, which is also a .32 acp but not a Thunder.
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I found out that if one Googles Beretta 81 the five images that show up are ALL Bersas!! PSSSST. www.gunbroker.com has 17 model 81s for sale. A real Beretta 81: http://www.gunbroker.com/item/610346283 Also: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...nDQHek&usg=AFQjCNHqFexefp5TInbpHdykbiDUcX6z5w
PSSSST. www.gunbroker.com has 17 model 81s for sale. A real Beretta 81: http://www.gunbroker.com/item/610346283 Also: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...nDQHek&usg=AFQjCNHqFexefp5TInbpHdykbiDUcX6z5w
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I contact the gun companies by e-mail if they have it, put a message to them on Facebook, and call by telephone. Taurus has a Send Message bar at the top of their Facebook page. Other companies might or just a message bar at the top of the page. A Taurus message I sent some months ago in 2016 got the reply that they were sending the my suggestions up the line to the appropriate people. Being a bit cynical, it is not known that they did that, but one can hope and keep trying.
Yes, the suggestion have been about .32 ACP pistols and such. Even a suggestion that a Taurus Curve come out in that guise. I do the same thing for Taurus Armas on Facebook and at Taurus Imports on the net. These are just examples of what can be done.
Yes, the suggestion have been about .32 ACP pistols and such. Even a suggestion that a Taurus Curve come out in that guise. I do the same thing for Taurus Armas on Facebook and at Taurus Imports on the net. These are just examples of what can be done.
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