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Every FFL I've asked for a copy told me no. The ATF doesn't allow it

AFS
You are correct.

When I sell a gun to a customer there are 2 options.

1. I can do it on a company terminal where the customer fills out his information and I fill out the model, serial, caliber of the firearm. The only info that goes NICS is, customer name, SSN (optional), citizenship, form of ID, exp date, date of birth, state born in, race, gender and if questions have a YES/NO response.

2. Call the NICS agency and give above info over the phone (no serial number or model of gun are given).

The 4473 is then printer and paper copy is filed.

Serial number and model are NOT given to the NICS.

Forms must be kept on file for 20 years. If a dealer goes out of business then paper files are sent to the ATF.

Now if the ATF requests a copy of a 4473, they must identify themselves give the dealer a name of the customer or serial number of the weapon.

This is looked up on the dealers computer system in the disposition log by customer name or serial number , 4473 search. If dealer does not have computer system the they must go through their 4473 and find the customer and make a copy of the 4473 for the ATF. This is a bitch to do by the way, but you better have it if you sold the weapon.

Same thing goes for the police department if they have recovered a weapon and are trying to trace who bought it.
Police go to the manufacture with serial number, manufacture tells them what dealer it was shipped to and on what date. Police go to dealer and have them trace the serial number to find out who bought it. Police go to customer. If you made a priviate sale you better have some info on the person you sold it to.

Now I have not asked the ATF why you don't get a copy of the 4473, never really thought about it. I do know that on a handgun purchase we do give the customer a copy of the DOJ form and a copy of the firearms transfer from us to them that contains model, serial, caliber, date and customer info.
 

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Never gave it much thought, but I’ve never asked for a copy. It would be interesting to see if anyone would give it to you.

Every FFL I've asked for a copy told me no. The ATF doesn't allow it

AFS
Hmmn, that is odd. Are you sure about that?
One of my favorite FFLs (also a friend) gave me a .PDF copy of his FFL to send to sellers to give to their shipping FFL. Some auction houses state that either you OR your receiving FFL have to send them a copy of the receiving FFL's license - and they will accept it from you OR the FFL.
 

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Hmmn, that is odd. Are you sure about that?
One of my favorite FFLs (also a friend) gave me a .PDF copy of his FFL to send to sellers to give to their shipping FFL. Some auction houses state that either you OR your receiving FFL have to send them a copy of the receiving FFL's license - and they will accept it from you OR the FFL.
I think you may have misunderstood. It’s a copy of the 4473 that is in question.
 
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Much ado about nothing.
Most gun shops are already (and have for years) used the web portal for submitting 4473s. It has been digital for years. The only difference is that the phone line approval process is being deprecated. For many years, the hold time on phone calls has been horrendous and, like I said, everybody (nearly everybody) has been using the computer system.

In any case it wouldn't matter, because even if the phone system was used, it gets typed into the computer at the ATF... same computer, different place of input.

The current law prohibits the ATF from keeping the records; that might be an aspect of law to watch, AFAIK there is no activity on that front.

Rhetorical question: why do gun aficionados love to panic about nothing?
 

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Much ado about nothing.
Most gun shops are already (and have for years) used the web portal for submitting 4473s. It has been digital for years. The only difference is that the phone line approval process is being deprecated. For many years, the hold time on phone calls has been horrendous and, like I said, everybody (nearly everybody) has been using the computer system.

In any case it wouldn't matter, because even if the phone system was used, it gets typed into the computer at the ATF... same computer, different place of input.

The current law prohibits the ATF from keeping the records; that might be an aspect of law to watch, AFAIK there is no activity on that front.

Rhetorical question: why do gun aficionados love to panic about nothing?
Rhetorical answer: Because the constant attack on the right to keep and bear arms over the decades can hardly be considered "nothing".
 
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Rhetorical answer: Because the constant attack on the right to keep and bear arms over the decades can hardly be considered "nothing".
Understood. There's an old saying: Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
Just think we should save our energy for something more critical.
 
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ok, so I'm guessing the best solution is to buy sheet metal or use lots of aluminum to be smelted down and sandcasted. I suppose you could cast with smelted cases. With a foundry, a mill and a welder, you can pretty much make any small arm out there.
 
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