Taurus Firearm Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was talking to a local county sheriff the other day, and asked him without a CCW, how can I tranport my semi-auto pistol, and he told me technically I could wear it unloaded on my hip, so long as it is not concealed by anything. But he said, if another person feels threatened by it's sight, they can file charges on me.

And wouldn't you know it, my CCW came in the next day.

So, my question is, can I legally carry my 24/7 Pro on a hip holster outside the pants, loaded or not, and if someone can see it in the holster, can I get charges filed against me, just from the sight of it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,761 Posts
This might be a better question for a Washington State firearms forum. They'll know better the local laws and how they are enforced. Or ask for clarification from your carry course instructor on this.

Steelheart
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts
JFree,

I am a Seattle resident and just went throught the process of getting my Concealed Pistol License (CPL). As I understand the state laws from the little pamphlet provided, you may carry your pistol openly in public without a CPL. It can't be carried loaded unless you do have a CPL and the weapon is concealed from public view. You may also publicly carry the pistol in a vehicle as long as it is not loaded and in open view. However, you can't leave the pistol in a vehicle unless it is concealed from site and locked up.

The brandishing law is RCW 9.41.270 "It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons."

The exceptions to the RCW is if you are feeling threatened by another, then you may brandish your weapon in self-defense, or if you are being threatened you may use your weapon, or if you are in fact under going bodily harm to yourself (you loved ones included) you may pull your weapon of choice including a pistol. Also, the brandishing law does not apply to your private living space.

Hope that helps.

Edit: BTW, here in Washington State you can't be charged with illegally brandishing a weapon if it is unloaded and holstered and in public view. So, just because a gun control nut might freak out and call 911 doesn't mean you are going to be charged. However, you do have to keep in mind where you can wear your gun openly. For instance, you would be in big trouble if you walked into a bank with your gun openly strapped to your waist! You also can't wear your gun into city, county, state, and federal offices without the express permission of law enforcement. Oh, and you can't openly carry a weapon in a Federal park.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
So, licensed or not, concealed or not, if a person sees my pistol and feels threatened by it's presence, then I've just committed a crime?

I need a new holster. I took back the inside the waistband one because it was uncomfortable, the one I have now is a hip holster, and much too large to conceal in any fashion. That is the inherent problem with 45. pistols. ::)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts
JFree said:
So, licensed or not, concealed or not, if a person sees my pistol and feels threatened by it's presence, then I've just committed a crime?
No, no. Here in Washington State if your weapon is holstered, not loaded, and in plain sight, you are not breaking the law even if an old lady dies of a heart attack at the site of your pistol. It isn't enough in this state to just feel threatened at the sight of a holstered unloaded gun to break the brandishing law. You have to manifest an intent to cause harm in order for the law to be broken.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Pierce said:
No, no. Here in Washington State if your weapon is holstered, not loaded, and in plain sight, you are not breaking the law...
What if I have a CCW, and my weapon is loaded, but in plain sight, holstered?
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
32,654 Posts
What's been said is true for just about any municipality anywhere in the good old U.S.A. for the most part.

Contacting the local and state's Attorney General for clarification is a good idea. While the police need to know the laws the nut and bolts are what is totally needed to know.

The Attorney General or District Attorneys are there for that.

Most police know some or most of the laws in a general sense more than completely overall. There's just too much for anyone person to completely be aware of and up to speed all the time.

That's what all the law books and appendments to the law are for. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts
JFree said:
What if I have a CCW, and my weapon is loaded, but in plain sight, holstered?
The law is that you can't carry, in plain sight, a loaded weapon even if you have a CCW. The exceptions to that rule are if you are in law enforcement or the military or out hunting game.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
That coincides with what I am reading.

This law does not make sense to me, (it would seem safer to me if I knew who had a loaded gun. This law says "Show everyone that you have an unloaded gun, but keep all loaded (and therefore lethal guns) hidden. This is to make sure that nobody is prepared for the potential danger. But remember, if your gun is not loaded, go ahead and wear it around town, we don't care. Even though the public will assume it is loaded, so what?"

I really need a concealable holster. The only shirt I can wear that completely conceals my current rig is my #99 Rocky Bernard Seahawks jersey, and that is because it comes down to about half-thigh.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts
I agree. It seems pretty odd that I can carry my loaded concealed gun, but can't carry the same gun openly while loaded! That is government for you! I guess they're afraid that someone will see the loaded gun and freak out. Or maybe the law is meant to disuade open carry? Why carry the gun openly if you can load it and carry it under a coat just so long as you have the license?

Just more gun control is all that it amounts to.

Edit: By "the same gun openly while loaded" I meant to write "the same gun openly while its loaded". I didn't want to edit the remark directly since it gave me a good chuckle. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
IANAL, but I'd bet the government has some reason for the law being the way that it is. Perhaps it is there way of getting around the 2nd amend? Ie. you can bear arms, just not loaded ones.

IDK, seems stupid to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,505 Posts
Actually there is open carry here in washington, but is subject to restrictions by minicipalites(cities). Check your local and county ordinances to see. There is a movement in Virginia and here to bring open carry to the limelight. Also I had a couple of law enforcement classes in college and if you look at the RCWs they state you can use deadly force in the defense of yourself, someone else, or your property, in stopping a felony in progress, and in the apprehension of a fugitive from justice. Now I am fairly certain that the last two circumstances were meant for law enforcement, but the law does not discern that so technically anyone can use deadly force under these circumstances. It somewhat makes sense since most times if someone is attacking you, they are commiting a felony, and most likely could be a fugitive from justice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The defense of your property is the one that comes up in court so much around here though. I've heard by several accounts that it is legal to use deadly force in defense of your property here in WA, but I've heard of people being sued in civil court over it too.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
32,654 Posts
Being sued in civil court is part and parcel in a lot of justified shootings. Doesn't take much to get a case started and the rules that apply to normal court cases change completetly wheb going to civil court. Beyond a shawdow of a doubt doesn't apply here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,505 Posts
Well it depends, suing is one thing, winning is entirely a different matter. Cops often get sued by the families after a justified shooting. Nothing can stop a family from starting a civil lawsuit. The only difference is if the officer was judged in the right by his department the department or his\her union will often times foot the bill. A regular citizen however, is on his\her own. So think about how much that car stereo might by worth to you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
That was actually my next question? Does 'property' mean my home and land, or my possessions and belongings? Not that I would shoot someone over the car stereo, but the car itself might be worth defending. People's lives are harder to replace than my stuff. Are their lives worth more to me than my property is, not if they are druggies.

I place drug abusers lower on the scale than roaches, ticks, fleas, and termites. And I am not exaggerating. I hate drug abusers. Unpredictable, unreliable, and willing to rob, steal, and destroy anything they can for just one $5 dope deal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts
Defense of your property generally means that you are protecting your home, your land, and your life. Your belongings becomes trickier if you are talking about an MP3 player, let's say, and you set it down on a public restroom sink and somebody snatches it and runs... If you pulled your weapon against the theif it is doubtful you are protected by the law. In other words, you likely can't gun somebody down for stealing from you. However, if someone holds you up at gun point (or with any other weapon), you can defend yourself, but at that time you are defending your life and not your property. Home and property defense is a bit more clear cut. Somebody enters your house without permission, they are automatically assumed to be a threat to your life and you can shoot. However, the use of force can be scrutinized by the courts and if the force is excessive (you shoot a burglar in the back as he is climbing out a window) you can be charged.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
That is pretty much the impression that I got too. Property means your house and home. At least as far as self-defense is concerned.

I have an uncle who's house has been broken into many times. He lives in downtown Tacoma. After the third time his house was broken into during the same summer, my uncle swears that the cops literally told him they were certain that it would be one of his neighbors, and that if he knew which one of his neighbors were breaking in, to invite them into the house at night, shoot them dead, and then place a pipe or a baseball bat into their hands, and call the cops.

Of course, he never did it. I don't think that he ever knew who it was. He ended up loading up a couple of shotguns, hiding all of his cars around back, and sitting up in his garage in the dark all night. Nothing else ever happened.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts
LOL! Sounds like something a TPD cop would say! Downtown area is still pretty rough, not as bad as it used to be. Thankfully Tacoma has done a LOT of cleaning up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I don't really know what part of Tacoma is 'downtown'. He lives a few blocks south of the Mall.

And since then, my other cousin, has married a TPD officer who has awesome stories every time we see each other.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top