[nevadabob]

My reloads like to bullet jump! I found this article:
John Farnham: 'Bullet Jump' Makes 9mm Snubbies a No-No - The Truth About Guns

I have a Charter Arms 9mm Pitbull. If I load around 1.070 COL the bullet jump doesn't interfere with the cylinder/barrel interface. But I'm having a heck of a time trying to find the right crimp that keeps the bullet in place.

Any thoughts?

 

[dwhite]

If it was me, I'd try some .38 Special bullets with crimp grooves and taper crimp as
much as I could into the groove. Shouldn't take much to hold that bullet. They're
0.357" diameter versus 0.355" for the 9mm. Would have to work your loads up
again but they should work.

You can buy cannelure tools to roll crimp grooves into bullets.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[MOONDAWG]

With a heavy roll crimp 9mm revolver loads work fine for me.

 

[olfarhors]

Do they even make a 355 projectile with a crimp groove??
my 9 MM revolvers all have them high capacity clippy thangs that go in the butt of the gun so I ask honestly.

 

[nevadabob]

Thanks for the comments. Yesterday I tried some Berry's 38 special plated bullets (0.357) using extra crimp. No good, the bullets started to walk. Last week loaded some Berry's, Xtreme, and Ranier 115's and all had the same bullet creep. Seems like the copper plating acts like butter!

After thinking all of this through, I all of a sudden remember last year using some powdered Eggleston 115 cn bullets (0.357) with A#5 6.1 gr powder that I didn't have a problem with. I remembered this after I started this thread. So I'll try those again and I think I will have solved my problem. This is what happens when I turned 68 on Tuesday!

 

[Fishinkeylargo]

Lee Factory crimp dies start as a taper crimp and turn into a roll crimp if you continue on. A very slight roll crimp into the plating should do the trick. Just don't load them too hot, you don't want to strip the plating off.

 

[mawguy]

I got a Taurus 905 from my brother and he did lots of handloads for it. It never shot right. The recoil was too harsh for him and he experimented with light loads. I finished off a batch he made, but to be honest, it was like the old TV show Gunsmoke. I literally had to wait for the smoke to clear so I could see what I was shooting at. I exaggerate, but not much.

For me, I use factory ammunition. Period.

 

[glenwolde]

My thoughts would of course be a roll crimp, and a bullet with a crimp groove. I haven't had a problem using .358 lead bullets, but those are for a Blackhawk where I know the throats are sized appropriately. Plus the Blackhawk is so big that there's not a lot of recoil. Take a .358 lead bullet and try to push it through a chamber from the front of the cylinder. If it goes through with finger pressure you're good.

It would not be a surprise to find the throats and barrel are both sized the same as their .38's. Not like you're going for match grade accuracy out of a snubby. They can use all the same tooling as the .38's, just a different chamber reamer. My Blackhawk 9mm & .357 cylinders had the same throat dimensions.

I know that Hornady and RCBS have made specific 9mm roll crimp dies in the past. I can't speak to any die sets that come with a roll crimp. Most I've seen have either been a taper crimp or what I would call no-crimp, where the die just removes the flair. I will probably end up with a dedicated roll crimp die eventually, even if I have to have one made. There might be another caliber die that would work, like a .38 Short/Long Colt. Maybe .38 S&W? Not sure about that one. Someday I'll get around to researching that. I'm thinking a .38 Short/Long Colt seating / crimp die would work.

 

[nevadabob]

Fishinkeylargo...I use the Lee dies and did not know that. Appreciate the info. In my recent loads with the copper plated variety, I started to get keyholing and assumed I had gone too far with my crimp.
I reloaded some Eggleston 115's last p.m. and hopefully will get to my shooting spot later this morning.
Thanks for all the comments guys!

 

[Fishinkeylargo]

Fishinkeylargo...I use the Lee dies and did not know that. Appreciate the info. In my recent loads with the copper plated variety, I started to get keyholing and assumed I had gone too far with my crimp.
I reloaded some Eggleston 115's last p.m. and hopefully will get to my shooting spot later this morning.
Thanks for all the comments guys!

I was looking for a taper crimp die for a revolver cartridge and contacted Lee to get one made. The gentleman I spoke with on the phone at Lee informed me of this. I was looking to taper crimp plated bullets that did not have no crimp grove for .32 S&W long that I was loading pretty hot. I purchased my first factory crimp die then and now own one for every pistol cartridge I own that they make one for.

For my .500 S&W loads using plated bullets with no crimp groove I do use a very slight roll crimp into the plating. They are pushing around 1600 FPS with no platting stripping issues and no accuracy issues. I just am careful to only make a slight indentation into the plating and not cut through it.

 

[Lomax]

I love snubbies, but not so much those in 9 mm Luger. Trying to make this pistol round perform in a small lightweight revolver has it's inherent obstacles.

With a semi-auto, the ammo runs loosely up the middle of your hand in a magazine, then fed into battery of a recoil absorbing slide/barrel assembly. Only one headstamp will receive full recoil at a time. In a revolver, each loaded pistol round, is now hammered into the recoil shield with each pull of the trigger. Kind of like pulling bullets with a kinetic hammer. Tapered crimps aren't designed for this recoil abuse. So what do you do?

+P loads in this gun are kind of a waste of powder. You'll need a 4-5'' barrel to get them to perform properly. Avoid these heavier loads. Using a fast powder with a moderate charge may help, as slower powders can also require a heavier crimp to burn consistently.

The bottom bullet is a 125gr JHP bullet, sized to.357''. I use it in 9mm loads for my Blackhawk convertible. The four above it are bullets claiming to be 9mm. They range from .355''-.357" in diameter. I'd chose the bullet(s) size that hand passes through each of the chamber throats and load for that size.

 

[nevadabob]

I loaded up my previously mentioned load, made sure I had more crimp than I use on my semi-auto 9's, and shot a number of rounds. In my 5 shot Pitbull, I arbitrarily picked the unfired round in cylinder hole #4 as the one to measure. So, I'd fire 3 shots then measure the unfired round. With a starting COL of 1.120, the unfired bullet from that cylinder hole would jump somewhere within the 1.121 - 1.128 reading. Certainly not enough to worry about blocking the cylinder rotation. And no bullet keyholing on the target.

It felt weird turning the die crimp knob as much as I did. I made some test loads with varying degrees of crimp nob rotation. The numbers mentioned above were from a batch with the knob turned clockwise almost all the way it would rotate. It reminded me of the OJ trial where OJ tried to stuff his hand in a shrunken glove. My casings were unforgivingly wrapped around the bullets tighter then Dick's hatband!

I've yet to try any store bought rounds to see how they perform.

 

[Lomax]

I loaded up my previously mentioned load, made sure I had more crimp than I use on my semi-auto 9's, and shot a number of rounds. In my 5 shot Pitbull, I arbitrarily picked the unfired round in cylinder hole #4 as the one to measure. So, I'd fire 3 shots then measure the unfired round. With a starting COL of 1.120, the unfired bullet from that cylinder hole would jump somewhere within the 1.121 - 1.128 reading. Certainly not enough to worry about blocking the cylinder rotation. And no bullet keyholing on the target.

It felt weird turning the die crimp knob as much as I did. I made some test loads with varying degrees of crimp nob rotation. The numbers mentioned above were from a batch with the knob turned clockwise almost all the way it would rotate. It reminded me of the OJ trial where OJ tried to stuff his hand in a shrunken glove. My casings were unforgivingly wrapped around the bullets tighter then Dick's hatband!

I've yet to try any store bought rounds to see how they perform.

Stop for a moment. Realize, that most modern revolvers utilize either a heavy roll or collet crimp in order to prevent the problems you are experiencing with loading for your Pitbull in 9mm Luger. Applying a roll crimp may very well work for this instance, but then this ammo may not perform well in a semi auto because of its rolled over case mouth.

Is there anything that might work better to your advantage? Maybe bullet choices could be improved upon. What I'd try is increasing the stiction between the brass case and bullet, still using a utilizing a factory tapered crimp. Knowing the Pitbull's groove diameter would be helpful info. If not I'd opt for seeing if a copper jacketed HP bullet sized at .355'' would pass through the chamber throats freely and hope for a .355'' groove diameter barrel.

This file photo illustrates some valid points. Plain hard cast lead, brass gilded coatings and the powder coated varieties might not be your best bet. All lend a certain amount of lubricity as compared to a copper jacketed bullet.

The short olgive and longer bearing surface of these JHP's and flat points may create much needed friction within the taper crimped case.

View attachment 417145

I'd go back and re-adjust the dies as directed, then try it with a faster burning powder, along with a JHP bullet.

Good luck.

 

[Lomax]

I loaded up my previously mentioned load, made sure I had more crimp than I use on my semi-auto 9's, and shot a number of rounds. In my 5 shot Pitbull, I arbitrarily picked the unfired round in cylinder hole #4 as the one to measure. So, I'd fire 3 shots then measure the unfired round. With a starting COL of 1.120, the unfired bullet from that cylinder hole would jump somewhere within the 1.121 - 1.128 reading. Certainly not enough to worry about blocking the cylinder rotation. And no bullet keyholing on the target.

It felt weird turning the die crimp knob as much as I did. I made some test loads with varying degrees of crimp nob rotation. The numbers mentioned above were from a batch with the knob turned clockwise almost all the way it would rotate. It reminded me of the OJ trial where OJ tried to stuff his hand in a shrunken glove. My casings were unforgivingly wrapped around the bullets tighter then Dick's hatband!

I've yet to try any store bought rounds to see how they perform.

Stop for a moment. Realize, that most modern revolvers utilize either a heavy roll or collet crimp in order to prevent the problems you are experiencing with loading for your Pitbull in 9mm Luger. Applying a roll crimp may very well work for this instance, but then this ammo may not perform well in a semi auto because of its rolled over case mouth.

Is there anything that might work better to your advantage? Maybe bullet choices could be improved upon. What I'd try is increasing the stiction between the brass case and bullet, still using a utilizing a factory tapered crimp. Knowing the Pitbull's groove diameter would be helpful info. If not I'd opt for seeing if a copper jacketed HP bullet sized at .355'' would pass through the chamber throats freely and hope for a .355'' groove diameter barrel.

This file photo illustrates some valid points. Plain hard cast lead, brass gilded coatings and the powder coated varieties might not be your best bet. All lend a certain amount of lubricity as compared to a copper jacketed bullet. The short olgive and longer bearing surface of these JHP's and flat points may create much needed friction within the taper crimped case.

I'd try a faster burning powder

View attachment 417145

 

[Lomax]

I don't know what happened to the previous two posts. Pics didn't load right.

Here's the bullet illustration I wanted to post in #14.

 

[NativeTexan]

I don't think a roll crimp is wise on a case that headspaces on the case mouth. You probably use a moon clip, but I cannot. I shoot 9mm out of a single action Blackhawk convertible. But, I have NO problems loading a .358" lead 105 grain SWC light and giving it a taper crimp. I have never had problems with bullet movement in autos using jacketed .355" bullets with a heavy taper crimp, so I don't see the problem in a revolver. My 115 grain hornady JHPs loaded to +P levels don't jump crimp in my Blackhawk, but then I've fired less than 2 cylinder fulls just testing 'em for accuracy. The 9mm cylinder for this gun is for plinking. I carry it with .357s if I wanna get serious in the woods. Too, the Blackhawk is around 36 ounces unloaded, a might heavier than a snubby.

 

[Lomax]

I don't think a roll crimp is wise on a case that headspaces on the rim. You probably use a moon clip, but I cannot. I shoot 9mm out of a single action Blackhawk convertible. But, I have NO problems loading a .358" lead 105 grain SWC light and giving it a taper crimp. I have never had problems with bullet movement in autos using jacketed .355" bullets with a heavy taper crimp, so I don't see the problem in a revolver. My 115 grain hornady JHPs loaded to +P levels don't jump crimp in my Blackhawk, but then I've fired less than 2 cylinder fulls just testing 'em for accuracy. The 9mm cylinder for this gun is for plinking. I carry it with .357s if I wanna get serious in the woods. Too, the Blackhawk is around 36 ounces unloaded, a might heavier than a snubby.

This Pitbull is unique in that it doesn't require moon clips, but relies instead on spring loaded detent wedges mounted within its extractor star to capture the case head. I'm guessing the Pitbull's cylinder headspaces off of the case mouth like your Blackhawk, and that the wedges just act as extractor claws.

It'd be a formidable belly gun, but slower on reloads compared to wheelgun able to moon clips or speed loaders.

I thought I wanted their black nitride Pitbull in .45 AUTO, then got a good buy on this .44 Bulldog instead.

 

[NativeTexan]

The 9mm pit bull was just out when I bought my Blackhawk and I considered it, but I really just wanted a 9mm plinker at the time that didn't chunk brass off in the grass. :rofl: The Blackhawk was a better answer for me. I wouldn't carry a 9mm revolver. Carry is why I bought my 11 shot 14 ounce Kel Tec P11, a little square revolver. But, nobody had the Charter Arms in stock when I was looking and I walked into a gun shop in Shiner when waiting on my wife who was at the quilt shop over there. They had the Blackhawk convertible in stock. It's a smaller gun, lighter, than my .357 Blackhawk, cute little thing with a flat top and some pretty wood grips. They wanted 600 bucks for it, but I wanted it BAD and I mean, what the heck do ya carry a visa card for it if ain't for such situations? :rofl:

So, I've been real happy with the Blackhawk. They had a Ruger LCR over at the other LGS in Shiner and I considered that, but again, I didn't want it for carry as I have two 9mm semi autos with superior firepower for that.

Man, I think I'll shoot my 9mm BH today, talked myself into it. :rofl:

 

[NativeTexan]

Oh, BTW, the 105 grain SWC, .358" as cast, that I load for practice in 9mm is a .38 caliber SWC from a Lee mold. I love that bullet, very accurate, and I shoot it in my 9s and in .38 special brass in my Rossi 92 carbine, actually the gun I developed the load for and bought the mold for. I like that bullet and shoot it so much that I bought a 6 cavity mold for it recently to speed up casting. I used to size it to .357, but in 9mm guns, I've found that un-necessary and my Blackhawk, after all, has a .357"bore diameter as well as does my Rossi carbine. A .358" cast bullet in the Ruger matches the bore, anyway, but in this light load, I get no leading in my semi autos with the bullet at .358" and it's just as accurate.