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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I favor "hand in pocket" ccw start, with the front pants pocket (Kydex, homemade) since that it a viable thing. Nobody pays any attention to the fact that you have your hand/s in your pocket/s. :) and it cuts off about 1/2 second of "clearing' the garment and getting a grasp on the gun time, for most people, at least, as compared to a ccw belt rig. For many, it cuts off more than 3/4 second, cause they aint very fast from their ccw rig. :)

. That means, for me, RELIABLE .75 second times to react to the beep of the electronic shooting timer ($100 at Shooting Chrony) and hit the chest at 10 ft of range, 10" disk as a target, average of 5 tries. That 1/2 second diff is enough time to hit him 3 more times in the chest, or hit 2 of his buddies, or brain him. I WANT that 1/2 second advantage, and the fact that the pocket carry is so secure, discrete, comfortable, and easy to set up or dispose of, as needed. Even if you start with "hands at sides", a fast man, from such a rig, is still faster for the draw and hit than the typical cop with either a secured uniform rig or a ccw'd belt rig. By that I mean 1.7 seconds for a reaction, draw and hit, 5 try average, 10" at 10 ft. the trick is to "slap" the pants, "follow' the seam up pants leg, to the corner of the pocket, fingers and thumb "flat" as in a karate "chop", then slip hand into pocket. If you keep keys, change, etc, in front pants pocket (normally) and swap that pocket use out for the pistol, you will find that you already have a LOT of practice getting your hand into that pocket. :) The typical cop needs 2.0 seconds, uniform rig or ccw, or he will miss a lot. If you just try this carry, it will make you 2x as fast as that cop.
 

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No! It wouldn't make a bit of difference in the real world.
 

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Getting old, i would have to use a calendar...............
i favor "hand in pocket" ccw start, with the front pants pocket (kydex, homemade) since that it a viable thing. Nobody pays any attention to the fact that you have your hand/s in your pocket/s. :) and it cuts off about 1/2 second of "clearing' the garment and getting a grasp on the gun time, for most people, at least, as compared to a ccw belt rig. For many, it cuts off more than 3/4 second, cause they aint very fast from their ccw rig. :)

. That means, for me, reliable .75 second times to react to the beep of the electronic shooting timer ($100 at shooting chrony) and hit the chest at 10 ft of range, 10" disk as a target, average of 5 tries. That 1/2 second diff is enough time to hit him 3 more times in the chest, or hit 2 of his buddies, or brain him. I want that 1/2 second advantage, and the fact that the pocket carry is so secure, discrete, comfortable, and easy to set up or dispose of, as needed. Even if you start with "hands at sides", a fast man, from such a rig, is still faster for the draw and hit than the typical cop with either a secured uniform rig or a ccw'd belt rig. By that i mean 1.7 seconds for a reaction, draw and hit, 5 try average, 10" at 10 ft. The trick is to "slap" the pants, "follow' the seam up pants leg, to the corner of the pocket, fingers and thumb "flat" as in a karate "chop", then slip hand into pocket. If you keep keys, change, etc, in front pants pocket (normally) and swap that pocket use out for the pistol, you will find that you already have a lot of practice getting your hand into that pocket. :) the typical cop needs 2.0 seconds, uniform rig or ccw, or he will miss a lot. If you just try this carry, it will make you 2x as fast as that cop.
 

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I'm much faster with a SAA colt for a quick draw holster than I am with a CCW gun but then one is conceal the other in plain sight.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
says YOU, right? my draw HAS made a difference, many times. most of them on attacking dogs, but some on men. that half second slower often means that you have to FIRE, instead of the attacker SEEING your gun and stopping. hitting someone with a bullet means you lose $50,000 or so, staying out of prison, loss of work to court days, bondsman's fees, having to move, loss of biz, wife and kids harassed, appeals, lawsuits, MAYBE innocents hurt by your misses or overpenetration, etc. if you can KEEP from having to fire, only an idiot would not do so.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
u just don't want to do the WORK involved in becoming faster. It's FUN, actually, especially with Airsoft "guns" and timers to match. 1/2 second per shot, in attic, basement, backyard. and if you screw up, you don't blow off your foot or leg. :) I stared work on ccw fast draw at the age of 13, 47 years ago, after a year of SA "revolver" (Hawes Co2 bb pistol) from a "speed rig". compared to having to thumbcock the hammer of an SA, disegaging a (non speed) lever on a 1911 is EASY, and disegaging and then leaving thumb atop of a speed safety (on 1911 style pistols) is just part of taking a proper firing grip. DAs and glocks are even easier, of course. but you can't be bothered.
 

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says YOU, right? my draw HAS made a difference, many times. most of them on attacking dogs, but some on men. that half second slower often means that you have to FIRE, instead of the attacker SEEING your gun and stopping. hitting someone with a bullet means you lose $50,000 or so, staying out of prison, loss of work to court days, bondsman's fees, having to move, loss of biz, wife and kids harassed, appeals, lawsuits, MAYBE innocents hurt by your misses or overpenetration, etc. if you can KEEP from having to fire, only an idiot would not do so.
Tacket - You need to lighten up here. If you differ in opinion that's fine, state your position and let it go. Calling out other members because you don't agree with their opinion isn't how we do things here. Be respectful of other members or you'll be asked to move along.
 

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No offense intended to anyone participating in this discussion...

Speed is fine, but accuracy is final.

When "simunitions" became available in the early 90's we incorporated them into our "Force on Force" training (as in somebody is shooting back at your with stuff that hurts like hell on the bod & ego).

This proved that fact to the non-believers in our agency. :r_c:
 

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I've never actually timed it but my draw's pretty quick. Now, if I could just learn to draw my gun as fast as the wife can whip out her credit card...;)...I'd have 'er made.
 
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Good gracious...I just became a new member here, and I'm reading about gunslingers...
There are always a few wannabes.

The overwhelming majority of lawful gun owners/carriers realize the responsibility they've assumed and hope and pray they never have to use their weapon.
 

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I'll admit that I have no idea what my draw speed/time is and I could probably stand to practice more as a responsible CPL holder in my state. I do frequently pocketcarry and I'll definitely admit that it would HAVE to be an advantage; hard to argue against is for the average non-military, non-LEO.
 

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There are always a few wannabes.

The overwhelming majority of lawful gun owners/carriers realize the responsibility they've assumed and hope and pray they never have to use their weapon.
Oh, marine, I wasn't being upset just facetious. After carrying a handgun for 35 years, long before CHLs, I know police officers who shouldn't have guns. I would expect you and your background to know the difference as well. AND, while, I'm at it, thanks for your service to this country. I was Army from '71 to '75...
 

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Somehow I must be strange I guess, I have pulled my pistol once on a dog and never on a person. Situational awareness I believe would be a remedy to having a quick draw or not. The one time I pulled on the dog I was trying to retreat at the same time and the draw was plenty fast for as slow as it was. How is it that you have been in a situation where you have had to pull your weapon so many times?

says YOU, right? my draw HAS made a difference, many times. most of them on attacking dogs, but some on men. that half second slower often means that you have to FIRE, instead of the attacker SEEING your gun and stopping. hitting someone with a bullet means you lose $50,000 or so, staying out of prison, loss of work to court days, bondsman's fees, having to move, loss of biz, wife and kids harassed, appeals, lawsuits, MAYBE innocents hurt by your misses or overpenetration, etc. if you can KEEP from having to fire, only an idiot would not do so.
 

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Somehow I must be strange I guess, I have pulled my pistol once on a dog and never on a person. Situational awareness I believe would be a remedy to having a quick draw or not. The one time I pulled on the dog I was trying to retreat at the same time and the draw was plenty fast for as slow as it was. How is it that you have been in a situation where you have had to pull your weapon so many times?
Those things happen all the time at the mall! You know how those Ninja's are.
 
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I don't time my draw. The fact that I use it on the range, while holsering or unholstering it when getting in and out of a vehicle (I have separate holsters in my vehicles), or at home at night is practice enough. If you are comfortable enough doing it then, your draw will be quick enough when the time comes. It will also help you figure out what position and cant works best for you as well. Again, if it isn't natural or comfortable, your draw will be affected.
 

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Thats the problem, I don't like the mall.

Those things happen all the time at the mall! You know how those Ninja's are.
 
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