[Dr.Ken]

Greetings to all.

I bought a 3" blued Taurus Judge on 12/8/07 and am worried about the wear on the gun (it has been shipped back to Taurus). The gun was fired approximately 200-250 times total with Magtech 45LC Cowboy rounds plus 3 shotgun shells. The gun is now showing metal wear on the front cylinder and the metal appears to have fused to the upper right corner of the main barrel. In addition, the blueing is coming off on the gun in several places, most noticeably on the right front tip of the barrel.

The gun has had only the use described above, along with cleanings after every session and storage in a gun pouch within a safe using a dehumidifier. Thus, I feel the wear on the gun is excessive for the minimal use. Hs anyone else had problems like this? I absolutely love the gun but have some concerns now. Taurus has been less than helpful re: Customer Service, so I am awaiting word from them. Hopefully something can be done.

I am hopefully attaching a couple of small pics to show the damage, but am new here so I hope it works.

- Ken

 

[Robby]

Well, I did look over your pictures, then looked over my Stainless JUDGE! I have almost the same amount of rounds thru mine, plus a lot more 410 than you.

I did not notice any of the things you mentioned, in mine. (of course I could not compare finish, blue to stainless). Did notice, I did not clean as good last time as I should have.

I noticed in your pictures what appeared to be lead build up, which made me wonder about clearance on the forcing cone. I know the gap on mine is huge, but I have not checked the actual gap. I have heard that Taurus allows as much as .07,or .007 compared to other makers who want .02 or .03, with no bigger than .05. I did not go back and find the acutal article I read. I do not know enough about the lockup or timing, to say that could be part of the problem, or just the gap. Hopefully Taurus will let you know what they find, and fix it as they have done for many other models.

 

[NYPD]

I have a stainless 3-inch Judge so I cannot comment on the blueing. I have fired over 1000 various rounds through mine and do not suffer from anything that you have described.

 

[SgtKnuckles]

Shooting cowboy unjacketed rounds you get Molten Lead build-up that you need to clean up after every trip to the range... The cylinder looks like normal Cylinder Face wear... All guns will see erosion of the cylinder blast area and Less so for Stainless Steel (the nickel in it makes it Tuff)...

S&W Forcing cone to Cylinder Gap is .002 to .006 ~ Taurus is a sloppier .004 to .008 This should always be measured with a feeler gage to check as a presale inspection. Don't by a new gun that is bigger because it will only get bigger and out of spec... The factory can fix it, to bring it back into spec...<) (check your GAP Gunner's)

Shoot Jacketed Bullets unless your Having FUN shooting Black Powder Rounds...<)

Blued Finishes Wear Off ~ That's Normal Wear and Tear ~ It Gives The GUN Character...<)

MY Polished Stainless Judge Has No Finish To Wear Off...
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/gallery/1232_17_09_07_8_05_06.jpg

 

[Robby]

Oh boy you got the shiny one. I still like the Matt Stainless better.

Shooting cowboy unjacketed rounds you get Molten Lead build-up that you need to clean up after every trip to the range... The cylinder looks like normal Cylinder Face wear... All guns will see erosion of the cylinder blast area and Less so for Stainless Steel (the nickel in it makes it Tuff)...

S&W Forcing cone to Cylinder Gap is .002 to .006 ~ Taurus is a sloppier .004 to .008 This should always be measured with a feeler gage to check as a presale inspection. Don't by a new gun that is bigger because it will only get bigger and out of spec... The factory can fix it, to bring it back into spec...<) (check your GAP Gunner's)

Shoot Jacketed Bullets unless your Having FUN shooting Black Powder Rounds...<)

I could not remember if it was .00, or .0 on that gap.

I only saw lead built up, but I have put a couple hundred cowboy loads thru mine, and not that bad.

 

[Dr.Ken]

Thanks all for your input.

Sgt - Not sure what you mean by "unjacketed rounds." I am new, so will own up to some ignorance here. The Magtech 45LC I have been using is about the only thing that can be found in my part of the world. KY has very limited ammo choices in 45LC.

This is a link that shows the ammo I have been using: http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/product.asp?prod=292597

It was the best pic I could find of the ammo box What do you guys use in your Judge's? I am not against switching if you have some recommendations.

Also, while the pics do show some leading (I have only recently discovered the lead removal cloths which are great!), the real issue is the bare metal stripping on the side of the cylinder (near where the cylinder meets the barrel. I know the "face" of the cylinder takes abuse, but was surprised to see the metal actually scraped/gouged off the side of the cylinder. If I could post larger pic sizes, you might see what I'm getting at.

Anyway, thanks again for the input. I truly wished I could have found a SS Judge, but they are very scarce. I grabbed this one when I saw it at Bud's gun shop (the retail, brick and mortar part) as they could not predict when/if a SS might be had. Oh well. I have learned never to buy a blued gun again. I just hope this can be fixed.

 

[Dr.Ken]

Here is another attempt to show the side damage. Apologize for the relatively poor pics...

- Ken

 

[MrTuffPaws]

Check for an alignment issue for the leading. Check the revolver FAQ if you don't know how to do so. If you have an alignment issue, you will need to send the gun back to Taurus for a fix.

As for the wear on the cylinder's side, check to see if it is hitting the forcing cone. If it is, you have an issue that needs a smith to fix. If it isn't hitting the forcing cone, did you drop it or use a holster? A little sand in a holster can ruin a finish.

Blued pistols are a pain in the rear because they will shot every damn scratch and wear point. You will either have to get used to seeing metal, or get a bluing pin.

 

[rwcreigh]

i hope you get the problem taking care of.by the way they look like one sweet gun.

 

[Robby]

I know recently 45 Colt has been tough to find. I have used a box or two of the brand you showed, But I could also find CCI Blazer Brass and Aluminum in FMJ,(full metal Jacket), or JHP, Jacketed Hollow Points).
I am in Kentucky, up near the Ohio river. I know Walmart does not stock the 45 colt, and some of the sporting goods places do in limited quantities. If you have a Dicks Sporting Goods, they have a few different types of 45 colt. If your near Gander Mountain, in western KY they are a good source too.
I know the cowboy loads are the most popular, and the cheapest in price. But I find some of them to be pretty dirty too, and as they are not jacketed take a lot of clean up after a box or two. If you wound up with the Black Powder version, it takes even more clean up. I stay away from them.

The ones below are listed in MidwayUSA site.
Buffalo Bore Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) 200 Grain Speer Gold Dot Jacketed Hollow Point Box of 20
CCI Blazer Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) 200 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point Box of 50
Federal Champion Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) 225 Grain Semi-Wadcutter Hollow Point Box of 20
Ultramax Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) 200 Grain Lead Round Nose Flat Point Box of 50
Winchester Super-X Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) 255 Grain Lead Round Nose Box of 20
Ten-X Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) 165 Grain Lead Hollow Base Flat Point BPC Box of 50

Also this thread has more about buying ammo, and sources. http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=5131.0

 

[SgtKnuckles]

That's a good Clear Pic of the PROBLEM...!!!...<:-((

WOW, I never seen so much lead build up on my Judge... Or on the Out Side Edge of my Cylinder Face...??? Ether there is a sever timing problem, or the lock up Key is not working...!!! It must be so far off its shearing bullets on the edge of the Forcing Cone...YIKES Your Gun is an example of why nobody should ever stand to the side of somebody shooting a Revolver... Theres more than Gun Powder blowing out the side that Revolver...!!!
Curious as it may be, because of the Long Cylinder on the Judge, I can wrap my fingers around the Trigger Guard in a two handed hold without suffering Over Blast from the Front of the Cylinder...<) You can't do that with a normal Revolver Six Shooters Short Cylinder, or you may be picking metal bits out of your fingers...
You should be able to shoot Cheap Cowboys all you want through the Judge, and just suffer the extra Brushing and Cleaning to get the lead out of the rifling, or you'll end up with a smooth bore...
I'll be the first to say the Judge is definitely not a Target Gun... BUT,... it's One Hell Of A Self-Defense ROOM CLEANER...!!!...<)

CCI Blazer Handgun CF Ammunition 3584, 45 Long Colt, Jacketed Hollow Point, 200 GR, 1000 fps, 50 Rd/bx
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=75104

.45 COLT 250GR XTP/HP 50/BX
http://www.ammodirect.com/default.aspx?tabid=44&id=72

Honey, What Are You Doing?
Reloading On The Kitchen Table...<) $5.00 Bucks a BOX
http://www.castbullet.com/reload/table.htm

The .45 Colt
http://www.chuckhawks.com/45Colt.htm

 

[Dr.Ken]

Thanks all again for your help.

Looks like the best jacketed rounds are the CCI Blazer (for reasonable cost per bullet). I have had great success with Blazer Brass in 9mm and wish they had the brass option for the 45 colt (their website lists 45 colt in the Blazer only). Oh well.

With 2 recommendations for the CCI Blazer, I take it you both have shot it and it has been OK? I was warned against the aluminum casings, but again that was in regards to the 9mm size for a semi-auto.

A lot of the other mentions by Robby (ie, Ultramax, Winchester, etc) look exactly like the Magtechs I have (ie exposed lead bullet at the end and a brass casing. So, those would likely give the same issues with use. I purchased a Black Hills box of 45 colt last night and it, too, looks exactly like the Magtech rounds.

Finally, keep this in mind, too. The pics I took were of the gun right before I shipped it back to Taurus (BTW, to answer another question, it was never dropped and never put in a holster, just the zippered gun blanket/carry thing to and from the range). I cleaned the gun after every firing (usually went through 50 round box, so shot the gun on 4 separate occasions). Thus, the pics are of the gun after 50 rounds of the Magtech.

My cleaning ritual involves a foam cleaner for 30 mins (Gunslick), brush with Hoppe's, several patches (Hoppes), clean patches, Bore Snake, oiling (Hoppes) and a final wipe down with Clenzoil followed by overall wiping with gun cloth. I have only recently found and begun using a lead free cloth as mentioned in an earlier post. If something is missing in this chain, please let me know. I take this as an exercise in learning!

Again, appreciate all the help and input. I am likely off to find a local source of CCI Blazer. Will keep everyone updated when/if I hear back from Taurus.

- Ken

 

[BigBadBull]

I have the blued 3" and blown through several boxes of .410 and a couple boxes of Winchester Lead Cowboys and mine doesn't look like that at all!

I use RemOil and Remington Bore Cleaner. It takes a little longer to clean it completely, but I still have all of my finish.

 

[Dr.Ken]

Just wanted to chime in with a brief update. My search for jacketed rounds has proven to be a bit difficult. I do have some of the CCI Blazer on order to see how that goes (just wish they had Blazer Brass in 45LC!). I have been told by a couple of sources that firing some jacketed rounds after a session of firing the exposed lead bullets will clear out a lot of the fouling. This may be a good idea or potentially dangerous.

Also, finaly got hold of the Taurus Repair Dept. For many prior phone calls, they said they were backed up and did not even know if they had my gun (I knew they did from the UPS tracking). Anyway, they finally have it in their system, but could not tell me anything else. I asked if I would get updates and they told me the gun will be shipped back at some point with a letter stating what they did. I had to really press them just for a ballpark timeframe and they said 'maybe 8 weeks.'

So far, I'm not exactly thrilled with the communication level with Taurus. If anyone is interested, I may be putting this one up for sale when/if it ever comes back.

- Ken

 

[SgtKnuckles]

Well Ken,... It will be interesting hearing what Taurus has to say when you get your Gun Back...???

 

[SgtKnuckles]

Oh, Dr.Ken,... I did not have ANY lead build-up around the OutSide of my Forcing Cone after my Judge Shot over 100 Rounds of all kinds of shells... All I had was Powder over Blast build-up to brush & scub off when I cleaned it...

 

[Cutter]

My stainless 6.5 inch barrel Judge doesn't show any signs of leading outside the forcing cone after a variety of shot and 45 colt were run through it. Normal cleaning removed the powder buildup without any problems. I'm very happy with The Judge so far.

 

[Dr.Ken]

Good to hear others got better examples. Hoping to see what will eventually happen with mine. I do miss the gun quite a bit, but just don't want to have this issue come back gain.

Keeping my fingers crossed....

 

[Dr.Ken]

Well, Got my Judge back yesterday. Am very curious to get some opinions. I waited a day to cool off as this was not what I was expecting to get back from Taurus.

They sent a note stating the barrel was adjusted and the gun was cleaned. I was shocked to see the large amounts of rust and the incredibly dirty, oily plastic bag they shipped it back to me in.

They also completely ignored the fact that the blueing was coming off, especially with how new the gun is and the very few rounds ever fire through it (see earlier posts above).

Is this what others get back from Taurus? I have an email in to them but so far no one from the company has bothered to write back. Not trying to overreact, but would welcome your opinions.

- Ken

 

[SgtKnuckles]

Doc,... I think your going to be a "Stainless Steel Gun" kinda Guy after this ORDEAL...<:-((

Kinda looks almost like cosmoline... Anti-Rust Preservative... Clean that stuff Off...
Check the Cylinder to Barrel Forcing Cone GAP... Taurus is .004 to .008 factory specs...
Seems to me that Gun has to go back for Blueing Problem, and if thats Rust... Send it Back with A detailed letter of the Problems You Find...!!!
Doc,... Ya gotta Get Them on the Phone, and talk to a Chief...!!!

slathered with cosmoline.