[rollin thunder]

The article is somewhat slanted, but the point has to be taken, good guys with guns, stop bad guys with guns.

Should more people bear arms after Schlenker shooting?

 

[darbo]

That's my Sheriff! I like that he speaks out and doesn't let the PC crowd control him.

 

[NotSo]

Something to remember, when the uniformed law shows up they will have no way to know the good guys from the baddies. Be ready to cease fire and lay your weapons down or you could end up in the morgue.

 

[pegasus]

From the article:

Statistically, it's rare for the average person who is armed to stop an incident with an active shooter, said Daniel Webster, professor of Health Policy and Management at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore.

This statement is almost always in any news story about CCW and active shootings, and almost always without context. It's technically true, but very misleading. First off, it's statistically rare for the average person to be in a active shooter incident period. In many of the active shooting incidents, they are either located in a criminal protection zone (the real name for a so called gun free zone) , or there is no one in the immediate area that is carrying anyway.

The correct statistic should be, of the active shootings where a concealed carrier was present, what is the success rate in stopping the active shooter versus the active shooting situations where no concealed carriers were present? I have not seen any actual statistics on this yet, only reporting of various stories in the news, including news from Israel, where concealed carriers have stopped not only active shooters but suicide bombers as well. Based on those stories I've seen, my rough guess would be

no cc at all = slim to no chance versus
at least one CCW = a small to even chance, depending on the circumstances
2 or more CC = odds increase

And what about the comment you see sometimes from the anti gunners, about how CHL holders will accidentally shoot innocent people in a mass shooting while trying to take out the killer? So far, that's never happened that I'm aware of. I've asked anti gunners to provide examples of this ever happening, but haven't seen or heard of any yet.

Even though that is of course a possibility, as for me, I'd rather take the remote chance of getting wounded accidentally by a CHL holder than be part of a dozen people being killed intentionally by a murderer.

 

[NotSo]

From the article:



This statement is almost always in any news story about CCW and active shootings, and almost always without context. It's technically true, but very misleading. First off, it's statistically rare for the average person to be in a active shooter incident period. In many of the active shooting incidents, they are either located in a criminal protection zone (the real name for a so called gun free zone) , or there is no one in the immediate area that is carrying anyway.

The correct statistic should be, of the active shootings where a concealed carrier was present, what is the success rate in stopping the active shooter versus the active shooting situations where no concealed carriers were present? I have not seen any actual statistics on this yet, only reporting of various stories in the news, including news from Israel, where concealed carriers have stopped not only active shooters but suicide bombers as well. Based on those stories I've seen, my rough guess would be

no cc at all = slim to no chance versus
at least one CCW = a small to even chance, depending on the circumstances
2 or more CC = odds increase

And what about the comment you see sometimes from the anti gunners, about how CHL holders will accidentally shoot innocent people in a mass shooting while trying to take out the killer? So far, that's never happened that I'm aware of. I've asked anti gunners to provide examples of this ever happening, but haven't seen or heard of any yet.

Even though that is of course a possibility, as for me, I'd rather take the remote chance of getting wounded accidentally by a CHL holder than be part of a dozen people being killed intentionally by a murderer.

Or some such.

 

[BigBlue]

Those that are willing and prepared to defend their life and the lives of others should be given the opportunity, as should volunteer victims.

 

[Divebum]

Funny thing about statistics: You can throw them out if you are part of the statistical population under consideration. When an anti tells me that my chances are remote that I'll ever have to use my gun, I'll respond by saying, "You are absolutely correct," and go on my merry way knowing that if I become part of his or her statistical population, chances are very, very good that I won't become part of a larger statistical population: Those who have been killed or wounded by a bad guy with a gun.

 

[CaptainMorgan]

Other than Texas, if an active shooter situation was stopped and only one or two were hurt or killed before the CHL stopped the attack there is no way of knowing what the potential victim count would be, or how many lives were saved. Many of these situations don't even merit being called mass shootings. An active shooting stopped with one or two victims plus the actor that started it just becomes a regular murder. Once the actor is dead there is know way of knowing their intent unless they left a note of some sort.

 

[olfarhors]

I think a lot of this depends on the particular armed citizen and the ability they have myself.
an armed citizen can/may be a stopper or they may just another victim that happens to have a gun, or they may be an accidental wounder /killer of others in the general area.
In a recent news ad on a local channel here.
a customer that was filling up his car with gas saw a armed robbery going down at a convinence store/gas station and decided to insert himself in the apprehension/ prevention of the bad guys getting away with it.
he was shot like 6-7-8 times by the robbers upon the exiting the store, the robbers got away.
now the film footage showed his choice of weapons for the attempted assist, it was a short barreled/stocked AK-47 with what appeared to be a 30 round mag hanging out of it.
he was shot by one or two handguns the robbers had by witness accounts.
so lets see, you have an automobile to use as concealment/ cover, you have a AK-47 and 30 rounds of rifle ammo and you still get shot and can't return effective fire?
maybe sometimes its just best for some to observe and be a witness.

 

[pegasus]

I think a lot of this depends on the particular armed citizen and the ability they have myself.
an armed citizen can/may be a stopper or they may just another victim that happens to have a gun, or they may be an accidental wounder /killer of others in the general area.
In a recent news ad on a local channel here.
a customer that was filling up his car with gas saw a armed robbery going down at a convinence store/gas station and decided to insert himself in the apprehension/ prevention of the bad guys getting away with it.
he was shot like 6-7-8 times by the robbers upon the exiting the store, the robbers got away.
now the film footage showed his choice of weapons for the attempted assist, it was a short barreled/stocked AK-47 with what appeared to be a 30 round mag hanging out of it.
he was shot by one or two handguns the robbers had by witness accounts.
so lets see, you have an automobile to use as concealment/ cover, you have a AK-47 and 30 rounds of rifle ammo and you still get shot and can't return effective fire?
maybe sometimes its just best for some to observe and be a witness.

If I were observing a robbery situation where no one was getting murdered, kidnapped, or sexually assaulted, my response would most likely be take cover and call 911. A mass shooting situation where if I do nothing is going to get me or some obviously innocent persons killed anyway is a different situation, one where you have almost nothing to lose at that point.

Any idea where/when this robbery occurred? I'd like to search for and see the video, strictly for educational purposes.

 

[Divebum]

I think a lot of this depends on the particular armed citizen and the ability they have myself.
an armed citizen can/may be a stopper or they may just another victim that happens to have a gun, or they may be an accidental wounder /killer of others in the general area.
In a recent news ad on a local channel here.
a customer that was filling up his car with gas saw a armed robbery going down at a convinence store/gas station and decided to insert himself in the apprehension/ prevention of the bad guys getting away with it.
he was shot like 6-7-8 times by the robbers upon the exiting the store, the robbers got away.
now the film footage showed his choice of weapons for the attempted assist, it was a short barreled/stocked AK-47 with what appeared to be a 30 round mag hanging out of it.
he was shot by one or two handguns the robbers had by witness accounts.
so lets see, you have an automobile to use as concealment/ cover, you have a AK-47 and 30 rounds of rifle ammo and you still get shot and can't return effective fire?
maybe sometimes its just best for some to observe and be a witness.

Absolutely true words. As someone who has been shot at and has shot back, I can attest to the adrenaline rush and the tunnel vision and the forgetting of the fundamentals. That's why we trained almost every day. So that the training would take over and we would react to the training rather than the situation. Someone who has never done any training other than what is required for a CHL (or less in some states) and then thinks they can handle a firing situation is going to be in for a rude awakening should the situation ever arise. Hell, it's been 40 years since I was in combat, so I have little idea of how I would perform or react even though I shoot on a regular basis, and not just from a chair or standing still. I'm old, I'm slow, and it seems the older I get the better I was. That's why unless there's no other choice, I'll be a hell of a good witness or avoid confrontation.

 

[olfarhors]

If I were observing a robbery situation where no one was getting murdered, kidnapped, or sexually assaulted, my response would most likely be take cover and call 911. A mass shooting situation where if I do nothing is going to get me or some obviously innocent persons killed anyway is a different situation, one where you have almost nothing to lose at that point.

Any idea where/when this robbery occurred? I'd like to search for and see the video, strictly for educational purposes.

was on the local (Atlanta) news within the last week 0r maybe 10 days.
occurred on Bankhead Hwy or ML King Drive , northwest Atlanta if I remember right?

 

[pegasus]

was on the local (Atlanta) news within the last week 0r maybe 10 days.
occurred on Bankhead Hwy or ML King Drive , northwest Atlanta if I remember right?

Based on your description of events, this is the closest thing I could find. Could this be it?

https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/...s-botched-robbery-turned-ak-gunfight-atlanta/

 

[olfarhors]

Based on your description of events, this is the closest thing I could find. Could this be it?

https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/...s-botched-robbery-turned-ak-gunfight-atlanta/

Nope!
that's not it.
in this situation it was a guy filling his car up at the gas pump and saw the robbery going down through the windows, he confronted the robbers when they were leaving the store.
thats what the new report said anyway.
the file footage showed the guys AK 47 laying in the driveway by his car that was parked at the pumps. hasn't been that long ago.
anyway just cause you got a gun, you may not be a hero.

 

[pegasus]

Nope!
that's not it.
in this situation it was a guy filling his car up at the gas pump and saw the robbery going down through the windows, he confronted the robbers when they were leaving the store.
thats what the new report said anyway.
the file footage showed the guys AK 47 laying in the driveway by his car that was parked at the pumps. hasn't been that long ago.
anyway just cause you got a gun, you may not be a hero.

Still can't find any video, but found these two links. Could either of these be it?

Good Samaritan shot 5 times trying to stop gas station robbery

Good Samaritan shot while trying to stop gas station robbery - Story | WAGA

 

[olfarhors]

Still can't find any video, but found these two links. Could either of these be it?

Good Samaritan shot 5 times trying to stop gas station robbery

Good Samaritan shot while trying to stop gas station robbery - Story | WAGA

ahh yep- thats the one!
both are the same story.
2700 MLK is right at Peyton road, just inside 285 on ML King drive.
my old fire territory from the fire Station on Bankhead Hwy.
reports originally said the good guy pulled the AK out of his auto, hence the Nickname Rambo I guess?
maybe he should have had the nick name "Dodger" instead???