Another "709 shooting low" thread

1511 Views 10 Replies 8 Participants Last post by oldbull360, Jun 30, 2013

shiftace

Discussion Starter · Jun 29, 2013

So, went to the range and there was another gentleman there shooting a bunch of guns (Glocks, Desert Eagles and a .454 Casull Taurus, to name a few!). Turns out the guy works in LE and spends a ton of time at the range. Shoots upwards of 10K rounds a year. Perfect. I asked him if he would mind shooting my 709, as I seemed to keep shooting low after 125 rounds. Same problem in his hands too. Way low, but a nice tight group. He said it was nice gun, and also gave me a ton of tips to correct my technique and how to shoot better.

Heck, the guy even used his own ammo to shoot and check the sights. Wayyyy low at 15 feet and less.

Unfortunately, there was a class scheduled there, and I had to leave the range. Do you think I should send this pistol back to Taurus for the sights issue? I tried adjusting the sights and gave the screw a good two whole turns, but still low. How many turns is too many turns?

Here is my 2nd target from this morning:

Shooting sport Shooting Recreation Target archery Individual sports

All low. Notice the top left, under the bar-code, I was aiming for that at about 15 feet, but no luck.

Any thoughts?

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Magnum_Gauge

· #2 · Jun 29, 2013

Aim higher

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shiftace

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jun 29, 2013 (Edited)

Magnum_Gauge said:
Aim higher

How do you think I got those two in the bulls-eye? The two just above it, I had the sights up just above the target (and completely off the paper)

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threedogstwo

· #4 · Jun 29, 2013

send it back mine did the same thing came back with new barrel slide and recoil spring still wasn't perfect but was better

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Wino

· #5 · Jun 29, 2013

As I recall the rear sight elevation only has 2-3 clicks then cam resets to lowest. You might try grinding some off top of front sight. I've also heard mention that Taurus has a lower front sight for the Slims - might call and ask.

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shiftace

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jun 29, 2013

threedogstwo said:
send it back mine did the same thing came back with new barrel slide and recoil spring still wasn't perfect but was better

I would, but then that leaves me with no pistol at home. Going to wait on the PT111MP to get back from Miami, and then maybe I will think about it.

I gave it a good cleaning and will be going back to the range - depending on weather and time off from work!

Wino said:
As I recall the rear sight elevation only has 2-3 clicks then cam resets to lowest. You might try grinding some off top of front sight. I've also heard mention that Taurus has a lower front sight for the Slims - might call and ask.

Will do!! Thanks!

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volfan

· #7 · Jun 29, 2013

Advantage Tactical Sights makes a set ( front & rear) for the 709. I read on another thread somewhere that they have a wider range of adjustment than the factory sights..

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Scott8mm

· #8 · Jun 30, 2013

Seriously, if everything else about the gun is OK I'd file down the front sight as Wino said or try to get a shorter front sight.. Back in 2010 when I got my 709, I was told that there were two or three different front sights. They had none of the short ones on hand so they couldn't send me one but they asked me to return the gun to Miami. I think they sent me a whole new gun (with my old s/n) and that gun developed extraction problems. I think my original gun was better than the replacement in other ways too (the chamber seemed to be cut crooked and the sear did not seat/release repeatably).

Some other thoughts:

Can you check the sights with a laser boresighter? That may tell you something. If you do use a laser, remember that the shot line should be below the sight line for 20 ft or so.

Can you use a bench rest to check the sughts?

What ammo do you use? 115 grain will hit lower than 124 grain because the recoil of the heavier bullet lifts the muzzle more even before the bullet leaves the barrel. My P22, for example, came with several interchangeable front sights to accommodate different ammo.

The 709 has a really long trigger. It's quite possible that you and the guy at the range were faked out by that long pull.

Finally, the accuracy you achieved is good enough for the purpose of this pistol. More accuracy is generally better but speed (smooth is fast) is probably more important.

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shiftace

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jun 30, 2013

Scott8mm said:
Finally, the accuracy you achieved is good enough for the purpose of this pistol. More accuracy is generally better but speed (smooth is fast) is probably more important.

Yup, agree that accuracy is good enough for a pocket pistol. I am probably going to be using it at close ranges (less than 10 feet) if I ever have to use it. However, it would be nice to get shots consistently in the bulls-eye at 15 feet. I can do it with all of my other handguns. Kinda re-assuring more than anything I think. As hard as it is to find ammo, 124 is pretty impossible to find in my neck of the woods.

Am going to give it another range trip or two.

and then go from there.

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mingaa

· #10 · Jun 30, 2013

Shitface - it has all been written - endlessly written, documented and complained about. Poorly designed 'adjustable' sights and gun ergos meet in a clusterfrick!

The rear site is on a non-locking cam - often without enough a avilable adjustment.

I tried the Truglo big fat front with some success by getting me more on the front sight - still not a solution.

The gun was slipping on the carry and on the "keep" list.

I went for Advantage Tactical sights and with great advise from the top staff - the initial setup was a winner.

Ive outlined details in previous threads but I'll say - they are a winner. I should have scrapped the stock sights long ago. Once the AT sights are set they are also locked and should be good for the life of the pistol.

Today there was a members only IDPA run BUG match at the club where I shoot. I wanted to see how the 709 matched up against my Kahr and what others were shooting. I was VERY pleased with the results (switched between the 2 guns) - that was the first use of the 709 in any form of competition ( beyond occasional appearances in TA monthly shootouts or other challenges.)

Money well spent - the gun is back on the keeper list.

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oldbull360

· #11 · Jun 30, 2013

shiftace said:
So, went to the range and there was another gentleman there shooting a bunch of guns (Glocks, Desert Eagles and a .454 Casull Taurus, to name a few!). Turns out the guy works in LE and spends a ton of time at the range. Shoots upwards of 10K rounds a year. Perfect. I asked him if he would mind shooting my 709, as I seemed to keep shooting low after 125 rounds. Same problem in his hands too. Way low, but a nice tight group. He said it was nice gun, and also gave me a ton of tips to correct my technique and how to shoot better. Heck, the guy even used his own ammo to shoot and check the sights. Wayyyy low at 15 feet and less.

Unfortunately, there was a class scheduled there, and I had to leave the range. Do you think I should send this pistol back to Taurus for the sights issue? I tried adjusting the sights and gave the screw a good two whole turns, but still low. How many turns is too many turns?

Here is my 2nd target from this morning:

View attachment 58873

All low. Notice the top left, under the bar-code, I was aiming for that at about 15 feet, but no luck.

Any thoughts?

One thing if you turn two turns you reset the sight. It only has about one full turn before reset so you have to be careful about that. You can order a shorter front sight from Taurus too that will raise point of impact. For a defensive gun that's not a bad target, pretty much a kill.

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