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Discussion Starter #1
Hello Gentlemen,

In the Taurus PT92 Manual, it states that one should use 9mmPARA 124GR FMJ rounds. (http://www.taurususa.com/pdf/MetallicPistol_manual_low.pdf, see Page 9)

I've been using Fiocchji 9mmPARA 115GR FMJ.

In the manual, it also says:

“Plus-P’, “Plus-P-Plus” or other ultra or high velocity ammunition generates
pressures significantly in excess of the pressures associated with standard
ammunition. Such pressures may affect the useful life of the firearm or
exceed the margin of safety built into many pistols and could therefore be
DANGEROUS.

It doesn't say whether or not I CAN use it.

Can someone please explain this whole Grain weight thing to me? And the whole +P thing as well? Basically, I want to know what is the best round with the most stopping power that I can use with my newer model PT92. Can my PT92 handle +P rounds? How would it affect the life of my PT92? Would I need to change out my locking block sooner? Etc, etc...

I found the following info on Wiki, but it isn't satisfactory:

Grains are still used as a measure for older drugs such as aspirin and nitroglycerin, though the milligram has almost completely replaced them. Grains are currently used in the United States and Canada to measure the mass of bullets and gunpowder, and scales for handloading measure in grains; bullets are generally measured in increments of 1 grain, gunpowder in increments of 0.1 grains. Grains are used to measure arrows, and arrow parts in archery. Grains are also used in environmental permitting to quantify particulate emissions.

Unless the firearm is explicitly marked as being +P rated or it is clearly stated in the gun's manual, +P ammunition should not be used. If in doubt, a check by a gunsmith or a phone call to the gun's manufacturer will verify the safety of +P ammunition in a particular firearm. Ammunition that is loaded to +P pressures is clearly marked on the headstamp as such, usually in the form "9mm Luger +P".


Thanks in advance guys!
 

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+P is fine in that 92, I have shot hundreds through mine along with many thousands of cheapie FMJs of varying weights. I buy the cheapest I can get for general range use and practice with my SD ammo by shooting maybe two mags of it per trip. I am currently using Win. Supreme SXT 147gr. JHP for SD ammo, have used plenty of Speer Gold Dot in the past.

Considering the price of +P I would imagine you are only talking for SD, not thousands of range rounds, in which case you should be fine.

Basically the 9MM are going to be 115, 124 and 147 gr. Any of these are fine although I prefer a 115 for the range (cheaper and easier on the gun and shooter). +P simply means that it is loaded hotter and will generate more chamber pressure.

Hope this helps.
 

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grains are just weight of the bullet 1gram= 15.XX grains...

for self defence ammo I would either go with 124 or 147gr. 115gr HP bullets don't penetrate as well.

I think you can use +p ammo in your PT92 but I wouldn't shoot only +p. you probably already know this but +p means higher pressure ammo (which means higher velocity and higher energy/power)

shooting hot ammo will wear out ANY gun faster but I'm talking about shooting thousands of rounds.

I would practice with regular 9mm ammo, and carry +p ;)
 

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I carry +P+ Winchester Ranger SXT 124 grain JHP ammo. (Formerly known as Black Talon). I do not feed this as a steady diet. I have fired a mag or two at the range, so I know how it will react. Frankly, I can't tell much difference between it and standard velocity 9mm. For practice, I use the cheapest stuff I can find, usually FMJ, and many times, Wolf brand. My PT92 eats it all.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Cheers guys!

There's a gun show in San Diego right now (The Crossroads Gun Show) and I'm going to go pick up some gear. Thanks for all the info - I'm going to buy some +p's for the house, and a ton of regular FMJ's for the range.

Hey Gray Wolf - Where'd you get that formula (1 gram= 15.XX grains) and where can I read more about calculating this type of stuff? Also, what does the XX represent?
 

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I forgot the exact number lol so I just used X's

but yeah 1 gram = 15.432 grains, 1 grain =0.0648 grams, 1lb= 7000 grains...

bullets and powders are measured in grains (gr) at least in North America, in Europe they use grams (gm) IIRC.

I relaod so I know this kinda stuff. you can try google to search for more info...
 

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This is good info for me. Having just bought this gun a month ago I was under the same assumption as Viras that the manual is a little vague about higher pressure ammo. I think I will get some +P stuff to carry in my new PT92.
 

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Gun Digest puts out a book called "Cartridges of the World" by Frank Barnes and there might be another author or editer with him on this if the mind serves correctly. This has all the specs on every cartridge to date. This includes wildcat rounds,obsolete ones, modern cartridges, and metric ones. Easy to read ballastics explanations are part and parcel of this book. Published loads and velocities as well, though you are on your own if you use their data for reloading. This book give the foot per pounds of energy for those who care about such things. It is a really good source book and is updated yearly. Worth the money. Found one at Barnes and Noble of all places. Gun Digest does have a website or a bookshop could order it. Many gun magazines at times have coupons for their books.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the follow up info guys.

Meanwhile, I have one word for the Crossroads of the West Gun Show: Disappointment.

But that's a whole 'nother topic.
 

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Follow up question, if you folks don't mind. So when I purchase 115 gr ammo, this means that the bullet weights 115 grains? Or does this mean that the whole "cartridge" weights 115 grains? Or does this mean that the gun powder in the cartridge weights 115 grains?

Also, I have heard the term "hot" used before, and I've never heard the actual definition when it comes to ammunition. Does "hot" mean that more powder is used in the cartridge (ie, similar to what is used in a +P cartridge) or does it mean that a higher grain is used in the cartridge?
 

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Toche said:
Follow up question, if you folks don't mind. So when I purchase 115 gr ammo, this means that the bullet weights 115 grains? Or does this mean that the whole "cartridge" weights 115 grains? Or does this mean that the gun powder in the cartridge weights 115 grains?

Also, I have heard the term "hot" used before, and I've never heard the actual definition when it comes to ammunition. Does "hot" mean that more powder is used in the cartridge (ie, similar to what is used in a +P cartridge) or does it mean that a higher grain is used in the cartridge?
It means the bullet weighs 115 grains, not the entire cartridge.
 

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Toche said:
Follow up question, if you folks don't mind. So when I purchase 115 gr ammo, this means that the bullet weights 115 grains? Or does this mean that the whole "cartridge" weights 115 grains? Or does this mean that the gun powder in the cartridge weights 115 grains?

Also, I have heard the term "hot" used before, and I've never heard the actual definition when it comes to ammunition. Does "hot" mean that more powder is used in the cartridge (ie, similar to what is used in a +P cartridge) or does it mean that a higher grain is used in the cartridge?
The number on the cartridge box refers to the weight of the projectile, and usually, letters or words followin describe the bullet:
"115 FMJ = 115 grain Full Metal Jacket" FMJ is like military ammo - no exposed lead at the front (to cause it to expand, per Hague Conventions)

"124 JHP = 124 grain Jacketed Hollow Point"

"147 CLRN= 147 grain Cast Lead Round Nose"

"120 LSWC - 120 grain Lead Semi Wad Cutter"

"TC - Truncated Conical"
"SJSP = Semi Jacketed Soft Point"

and so on.

Read the footnotes at the bottom of the pages on the Lyman 49th Reloading manual, or such notes on the web pages of loading data, at Hodgdon/Winchester/IMR, Alliant, Accurate etc websites.

As for "hot", that is a relative term, and the meaning ALWAYS varies depending on where it is used, how it is used, and (most especially) WHO is using it. ;D



Flash
 

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Hurryin Hoosier said:
I use Magtech 124 grain FMJ with excellent results. I can't see how +P would do any better.
That would depend on your planned use. For self defense, I was advised by a friend, who works for the Wayne County Sheriff's office, the best in his opinion was 124 grain JHP Ranger SXT +P+. Essentially, the old Black Talon ammo with a different name.

FMJ is great for target shooting, but the only FMJ I'd use for self defense is the .45ACP size. :)
 

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Whatever you use for SD , run a box or two thru you pistol to make sure there is no malfunctions . I try to find the SD ammo in the 50 round boxes , the 50's cost the same or less than the 20-25 round boxes , this will cut the cost down greatly . Presently I use Gold Dot 115 JHP +P+ , when those are gone I will switch back to the Gold Dot 124 JHP +P . I couldn't find any Ranger in 50 rounds or I would have went with the 127 JHP +P+ , they have close to the same energy as a <357 , close but not more .
 

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Max Chamber Pressure - SAAMI Specs

Note that 9mm is listed at 35,000 PSI, while the +P is listed at 38,500 PSI.

To hear many talk, one would think that +P is at least twice the pressure of standard. It's not. Nor are cartridges not currently listed as +P by SAAMI unable to have a +P rating. SAAMI is also research group. If you're willing to pay for the development of a +P standard on a cartridge, they will happily do so. Want a .25 ACP +P load? They can do it. IF you pay for it.

+P+ is a different animal. It's a performance based specification. An agency decides that they want a specific bullet weight, at a specific velocity that is greater than standard using SAAMI specs. They make a minimum order, and sign a waiver of liability for the manufacturer, and the manufacturer develops the load. Pressures can be anywhere from 100 PSI above +P, if there's such a rating for that cartridge, on up to just below proof pressures. Rarely are such cartridges accompanied by a pressure indication on the box. Where the +P+ falls in the scale depends upon the specification. If it's 100 PSI greater than +p, it's +P+. If it's within 100 PSI of proof pressures, it's still +P+. Same with +P. There, anything over standards is automatically assigned +P, up to the maximum level.

I tend to stay away from +P+. +P is acceptable for general use to me. Face it, if you think that you NEED +P+ pressures to generate the necessary ft/lbs of energy, you'd be better served to use a larger caliber. :)
 

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Necrooooooooothread bumped by a first time post . . . .
 
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