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So many articles on 9mm being this or that,it is what it is,some would lead you to believe a person couldn't possibly be stopped with one.I believe shot placement trumps caliber everytime,The nine is easy to shoot,fairly cheap to shoot and with modern bullets just as deadly as anything else.And for all the bashing of said cartrige one has to only wonder how many never came home fron ww2 because of it.Love it or hate it I think it's a fine round.
 

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You are so right! Shot placement is key. There must be something to the 9mm because it's always being compared to something? Bottom line is carry something and be comfortable using it. :eek::D
 

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I live between two battle zones, Chicago and Milwaukee. Thousands of people are shot every year between these two cities and many survive. Shot with everything from pocket pistols to high powder rifles and people live. The human body is very resilient and can withstand much trauma while at the same time can be very fragile. What kills some, others survive.
 

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So many articles on 9mm being this or that,it is what it is,some would lead you to believe a person couldn't possibly be stopped with one.I believe shot placement trumps caliber everytime,The nine is easy to shoot,fairly cheap to shoot and with modern bullets just as deadly as anything else.And for all the bashing of said cartrige one has to only wonder how many never came home fron ww2 because of it.Love it or hate it I think it's a fine round.
I like the 9. It packs good power in a small package. I have a "wondernine" and a little pocket nine. I've been a bit infatuated (again) lately with .45ACP, but 9 is fine. :D I like my revolvers, too.

I think the police agencies around the country seem to be switching back to nine from .40. Weird how the circle works. Used to be 9 just wasn't enough, now they're dumping their .40s by the score to go back to 9. :rolleyes: Well, whatever. All these police fads do give us lots of police trade ins from time to time. I really liked it when they were trading in their .357s for 9s. :lol: I was too broke at the time to pick a few up, though. Bummer. Maybe I'll pick up a .40 trade in. I don't really wanna get into .40 and I won't own a Glock, so I doubt it'll happen.
 

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Rather hit a bad guy with a .22 than miss him with a .45. But I do love following the "caliber wars." I love reading the "experts" telling me why I should carry XXX and not YYY. Shot placement first, comfort and familiarity with second.
 

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Rather hit a bad guy with a .22 than miss him with a .45. But I do love following the "caliber wars." I love reading the "experts" telling me why I should carry XXX and not YYY. Shot placement first, comfort and familiarity with second.
I think it's the comfort and familiarity thing that keeps me carrying my little .38 snubby. :D
 

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Rather hit a bad guy with a .22 than miss him with a .45. But I do love following the "caliber wars." I love reading the "experts" telling me why I should carry XXX and not YYY. Shot placement first, comfort and familiarity with second.
I see it as a “First World Problem”. We are so blessed to have options, we feel the need to justify our choice, instead of just enjoy it and make it work for us. We can have a tool for every purpose, instead of only one tool for all purposes. 100 years ago, that wasn’t the case here. ‘They did what they did with calibers that shouldn’t be able to do what it did but it’s all they had so they used it.’
 

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I never cared for 9mm. I don't own any. I might get one as a range toy but thats all it would be for me. The biggest reason is it's popular. (For me that's a very big negative) Popularity can be overcome if I think something shines in other areas. But for me the 9 doesn't shine, its just a good solid round.

That said, there is nothing wrong with the 9mm for those that like it. Use what you like and don't let others sway you. I just like stirring the pot sometimes. :D

Caliber for me is just one (very minor) part of the equation. I carry .32acp sometimes and don't feel under calibered. Like others have said, the big part is familiarity, reliability of the weapon and placement.
 
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The debates over ammunition caliber and bullet type have raged on for decades and will most certainly do so for the foreseeable future. I switched from 45 ACP to 9mm back in the late 80s when the Military adopted 9mm, and I knew how 45 ACP actually performed in real life scenarios from CQC in Nam. It is no where near as devistating as the myths would have you believe. Unless you make a hit to a vital organ ot central nervous system, it does not quickly stop an assailant. Yes, the assailant might bleed out, but he can shoot you a dozen times before that happens.


I have never had to shoot someone with 9mm so I can only speak from extensive research done over years. During that time I switched from JHP to a solid copper bullet specifically designed for self defense. That ammo is 9mm Underwood Xtreme Defender standard pressure. Below I will layout why I did that and why I am convinced I was correct in doing so with expert opinion and real example of the damage the bullet can do. I expect some to be skeptical, but I yield to facts over myth.


The first influence on my decision was the opinion of Dr. Vincent Di Maio, an expert forensic pathologist accredited with over 9,000 would analysis autopsies. His book GunShot Wounds has become the bible of wound ballistics. I have read the book, all 401 pages of it. Below I will paste some excerpt from it that address gunshot would ballistics of both JHP and FMJ. His findings made me seek a solid bullet in place of HP. But I wanted a sold that would not over-penetrate. The previously mentioned Underwood round met that requirement.


The following text is from the book but are not a single sections. They are different paragraphs not always connected.

When a bullet strikes tissue, it produces injuries by two mechanisms: (1) directly crushing and shredding a wound track equal to the diameter of the bullet, and (2) creating a temporary cavity. These actions result in both anatomic and physiologic injuries that impair the function of the organs affected.


If a 9-mm hollow-point bullet expands (mushrooms) to 12 mm in pass- ing through an organ, the amount of tissue crushed and shredded will, theoretically, be greater than if the bullet did not expand or if it was a solid bullet. In reality, a solid or non-expanding bullet may produce equal if not more direct injury to tissue, if it tumbles after achieving penetration while the hollow-point doesn’t. Solid bullets may even be more lethal than mush- rooming bullets. As a general rule, mushrooming bullets do not penetrate as deeply as solid bullets because they mushroom. If the aorta, for example, is 14 inches from the skin surface and the mushrooming bullet stops after 12 inches of penetration but the solid bullet travels for 18 inches, then the solid bullet is more lethal than the hollow-point.


There is no objective proof that in real-life situations mushrooming of a bullet plays a significant role in increasing lethality or the “stopping power” of the bullet.


There are a number of myths about hollow-point handgun ammunition which tend to impart a bad reputation to this type of ammunition. First, it should be said that hollow-point bullets do not mutilate organs or destroy them any more than their solid-nose, all-lead counterparts of the same cal- iber. The wounds in the skin, as well as those in the internal organs, are the same in appearance and extent for both types of ammunition. One cannot examine the wounds in a body and say that the individual was shot with a hollow-point rather than a solid-lead bullet. No organs are reduced to a “chopped meat” by a handgun bullet.



Motivated to find a better bullet I came upon the Underwood Round using the Lehigh Defense bullet. After seeing many gel tests of the 9mm bullet I decided to adopt it. Many have decried my decision stating that the bullet was a novelty and unproven in real life. They cited the documented destructive power of HP. However, I cannot fins such documentation other than opinions of laypersons. The Di Maio book clearly indicates that there is no advantage to JHP and possible advantage of FMJ due to penetration, which Di Maio clearly states (above) is more important than expansion.


Then I recently found a YouTube video that showed the damage to a feral hog that was shot with the Underwood ammo in a shoulder through the lungs into the opposite shoulder shot. The Link to that video below gives graphic proof of what the bullet will do to bone and tissue. It reassured me I made the correct choice.


To cut past the hunt and to the 9mm wound autopsy start watching just past 3 minutes.






 

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I've owned 9s before, but don't currently have one. .40 is my constant companion these days.
 
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I never cared for 9mm. I don't own any. I might get one as a range toy but thats all it would be for me. The biggest reason is it's popular. (For me that's a very big negative) Popularity can be overcome if I think something shines in other areas. But for me the 9 doesn't shine, its just a good solid round.

That said, there is nothing wrong with the 9mm for those that like it. Use what you like and don't let others sway you. I just like stirring the pot sometimes. :D

Caliber for me is just one (very minor) part of the equation. I carry .32acp sometimes and don't feel under calibered. Like others have said, the big part is familiarity, reliability of the weapon and placement.
The 9 has some advantages. It's quite powerful in +P form, the little guns are accurate and very compact and light, almost as small and light as any .380 in some cases. The nine offers more firepower than anything else when in a larger framed gun and recoil is light and shot recovery is fast which I appreciated when i was shooting IDPA with it. I also appreciated those tapered double stack magazines when having to make reloads in IDPA. Reloads were my main obstacle to speed when I was competing. I had good speed and great accuracy, but toss in a reload or 10 as they always did and I dropped in the finishing order. :laugh: I was shooting stock "service pistol" class and a funneled mag well was not an option for me.

So, there are good reasons beyond price of store bought ammo to shoot a 9. As far as carrying it, if you aren't comfortable with it, don't bother. But, my little Kel Tec went EVERYWHERE with me just as my little 85UL does now when I lived in Corpus. Corpus is a rough town, but then most larger cities are. Back then, I pocket carried as I didn't wanna flash a belt gun and didn't like carrying IWB. Since they passed open carry, that really doesn't apply anymore. :D
 

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The 9 has some advantages. It's quite powerful in +P form, the little guns are accurate and very compact and light, almost as small and light as any .380 in some cases. The nine offers more firepower than anything else when in a larger framed gun and recoil is light and shot recovery is fast which I appreciated when i was shooting IDPA with it. I also appreciated those tapered double stack magazines when having to make reloads in IDPA. Reloads were my main obstacle to speed when I was competing. I had good speed and great accuracy, but toss in a reload or 10 as they always did and I dropped in the finishing order. :laugh: I was shooting stock "service pistol" class and a funneled mag well was not an option for me.

So, there are good reasons beyond price of store bought ammo to shoot a 9. As far as carrying it, if you aren't comfortable with it, don't bother. But, my little Kel Tec went EVERYWHERE with me just as my little 85UL does now when I lived in Corpus. Corpus is a rough town, but then most larger cities are. Back then, I pocket carried as I didn't wanna flash a belt gun and didn't like carrying IWB. Since they passed open carry, that really doesn't apply anymore. :D

If I shot IDPA, I'd probably use 9 for that. I'd feel fine carrying one, I just won't spend my money on one... now if any of yall want to give me one... :D :p

Capacity in an every day defensive weapon isn't a big part of the equation for me. Many times I carry my M85UL, 5 rounds without any extra ammo. (Sacrilege to many i know! :D ) All the .40's I have are only one round off their 9mm little sisters and I get a bigger projectile which I'd rather have.
 

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If I shot IDPA, I'd probably use 9 for that. I'd feel fine carrying one, I just won't spend my money on one... now if any of yall want to give me one... :D :p

Capacity in an every day defensive weapon isn't a big part of the equation for me. Many times I carry my M85UL, 5 rounds without any extra ammo. (Sacrilege to many i know! :D ) All the .40's I have are only one round off their 9mm little sisters and I get a bigger projectile which I'd rather have.
I don't own anything .40, just never interested me. I do have two .45s not including my Pietta '58 Remmy with the .45ACP conversion. :D I just got a PT145 and with the 14 round mag I got for it, it'll match a .40 for firepower, though I think I prefer to carry with 10 rounders. I mean, if you're going big, just GO BIG, right? :rofl:

There was a time when I belonged to a gun club where the cops shot their .40s for qualifications. I considered a .40 back then because I had an unending supply of .40 brass. What I was looking at was a .40 caliber Taurus revolver, actually. But, I never did it and don't have access to that range anymore. I do have lots of reloading supplies for the 9 as I still even have bullets, let alone brass, left over from my years shooting IDPA. I cast for it, too, as I do everything I have. It's cheap to shoot, uses very little bullseye and a 105 grain SWC that takes very little lead. I also have a Blackhawk convertible that has a 9mm cylinder that I love to shoot. So, I won't be getting rid of any of my 9mm stuff. :D
 

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I carry 9mm not because I am enamored with the caliber itself, the ballistics, or the wound characteristics. I simply like the delivery mechanism - a double stack semi auto with a thumb safety and last round hold open that is dependable and cost less than $200. Make that in a .45 and I buy one of those. Also, the 9mm is adequate for my purposes... I want to slow or stop an attacker sufficiently to make my escape.

The 9mm also is a compromise between perhaps not having enough firepower (.22, .32, maybe 380) and the prosecution lawyer asking " .45?? Are you some kind of Dirty Harry type??"
 

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I don't own anything .40, just never interested me. I do have two .45s not including my Pietta '58 Remmy with the .45ACP conversion. :D I just got a PT145 and with the 14 round mag I got for it, it'll match a .40 for firepower, though I think I prefer to carry with 10 rounders. I mean, if you're going big, just GO BIG, right? :rofl:

There was a time when I belonged to a gun club where the cops shot their .40s for qualifications. I considered a .40 back then because I had an unending supply of .40 brass. What I was looking at was a .40 caliber Taurus revolver, actually. But, I never did it and don't have access to that range anymore. I do have lots of reloading supplies for the 9 as I still even have bullets, let alone brass, left over from my years shooting IDPA. I cast for it, too, as I do everything I have. It's cheap to shoot, uses very little bullseye and a 105 grain SWC that takes very little lead. I also have a Blackhawk convertible that has a 9mm cylinder that I love to shoot. So, I won't be getting rid of any of my 9mm stuff. :D
I love .45acp... its a tie between .45 and .40 as to the most carried caliber here.

At 14 Rounds of .45 acp, my XD45 Mod 2 4" quickly became a favorite this summer! :D
 

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I carry 9mm not because I am enamored with the caliber itself, the ballistics, or the wound characteristics. I simply like the delivery mechanism - a double stack semi auto with a thumb safety and last round hold open that is dependable and cost less than $200. Make that in a .45 and I buy one of those. Also, the 9mm is adequate for my purposes... I want to slow or stop an attacker sufficiently to make my escape.

The 9mm also is a compromise between perhaps not having enough firepower (.22, .32, maybe 380) and the prosecution lawyer asking " .45?? Are you some kind of Dirty Harry type??"
I don't know that this has EVER happened, especially in Texas, the land of the .45. :rofl: You could make the same argument against a MAGNUM, after all, that was Dirty Harry's choice, never mind it was a .44. Using reloads for defense is one of Mas Ayoob's boogaboos, but he's a Yankee. I've never worried about that either, especially in Texas. Either the shoot was good or it wasn't.
 

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I love .45acp... its a tie between .45 and .40 as to the most carried caliber here.

At 14 Rounds of .45 acp, my XD45 Mod 2 4" quickly became a favorite this summer! :D
Well, see, we agree. I've been going through a bit of .45 rebirth myself. I didn't carry my old Ruger P90 much. It's light enough at 34 ounces, but it's long in the slide and hard to cover in summer. I got this PT145 and WOW, talk about compact! Not only that, it's reliable and decently accurate, though not on par with the Ruger in either regard. The Ruger never met a bullet it didn't like. I'm still working with the PT145, loves the 185 grain FTX Hornadys, but I can only get 'em in factory ammo, but it's good ammo. I practice with ball or 200 grain cast lead SWC which works well.

Even my trusty 19 ounce .357 magnum has taken a back seat to this PT145 lately. I'll get over it, eventually. :rofl:
 

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I don't know that this has EVER happened, especially in Texas, the land of the .45. :rofl: You could make the same argument against a MAGNUM, after all, that was Dirty Harry's choice, never mind it was a .44. Using reloads for defense is one of Mas Ayoob's boogaboos, but he's a Yankee. I've never worried about that either, especially in Texas. Either the shoot was good or it wasn't.
Yep. All valid points to be sure. I think we can all agree on two things; To each his own in the caliber wars, and NONE of us would like to be on the pointy end of any fired bullet regardless of caliber. :)
 
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