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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone used this particular ammo., and have any comments on it?
I'm thinking of ordering 1000 rounds from AMMOMAN http://ammoman.com/index.htm


9MM NATO 124 GRAIN - FULL METAL JACKET
WINCHESTER MANUFACTURER
NATO HEADSTAMP AND BOXED MARKED 9MM
NATO HEADSTAMP READS "WCC 06" PART# Q4318
VERY LIMITED QUANTITY
BRAND NEW AND BOXER PRIMED
 

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Yes, I've shot it and appreciate it. The 9mm is a relatively poor cartridge in many respects and the NATO round is basically a 9mm +P round making a little heavier and thereby more useful bullet travel at the same speed as the more common 115 gr. heads. Generally. MIGHT consider a slightly heavier slide spring on the arm you'll us it in but not necessary. Enjoy.
Alden
 

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J;
Checked 'em out and, though I HATE Winchester ammo, I bought a single case myself. I have simply not stumbled across any NATO surplus (don't get to many big gun shows these days) which is what I'd normally recommend for defensive applications, and since the war prices have gone up so, what the heck, I splurged and now I have my supply. The only other I have in any real quantity is a large case of 147 grain stuff but it is also slow (sub-sonc I believe) and comparatively weak. Your inquiry also reminded me to get new regular and slighty heavier recoil and firing pin springs for my Browing Hi-Power.

As an added note, and I guess benefit, the cartridges I rec'd are dated '07 not '06...

Alden
 

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J;
Oh, one more thing... Unlike true military-contract type stuff, although the primers are crimped they are not laquered and the cases are apparently not annealed. I even compared them to my Olin Corporation (Winchester) military surplus NATO Ball M882 in a plain brown box that are headstamped '88. Bottom line? This seems more like commercial stuff loaded to 9mm NATO standards (I hope) but I seriously doubt it is military contract overrun stuff and so not a huge bargain...
 

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One caveat folks. 9mm. NATO ammo is loaded to higher pressures than many +P loads. Equal to or surpass +P+ pressures. Might be something to stay away from.

Might want to find out if these are within SAAMI specs for pressure adn within manual specs for velocity and bullet weight.
 

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Guys;
This is not scientific but I contend that 9mm NATO is a +P round that weighs a little more. Please see...
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-99178.html



And I found this posted for what its worth...


Just to clarify, here are some recent chronograph results found in a search:

WCC M882 Ball 1186 fps average 20 rounds from a G17

Federal M882 Ball 1136 fps from a G17

WW Ranger T 127grn +P+ 1331 fps from a G17

A few notes: M882 Ball is 124 grn ammo, some has been made with 115 grn bullets. Earlier pressure specification for M882 was somewhat higher than current. Testing methodology not stated for chrono results. Glocks do tend to run faster for a given barrel length.
SAAMI does not recommend 9mm NATO in pistols marked 9x19, 9mm P, but I suspect this is due to a conservative approach with some past Subgun loads rather than a reflection of current production. In any case any current 9mm pistol employed by the military is perfectly safe with current 9mm NATO. This would include Berreta, Glock, H&K, SIG, CZ, Steyr, FN, and a host of others.


Alden
 

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It's the pressures that are the concern here. Velocity is no measure of pressures.

Beretta ,High Powers, and other pistols used by the militaryand police have had major safety issues because of this. Catastrophic failures that caused injury or could have.

This because NATO spec ammo from different ammo makers was used. Even with heavier recoil springs does not relieve the stresses put on the rest of the gun's internal parts.

In no way were substandard parts a reason for the failures and damage done to the pistols in question.
Granted, the military and police give harsh use to their pistols as opposed to most civilains. But the higher pressure cracks,slide failures, and other damage were in due part to high pressure NATO spec rounds as opposed to standard pressure ammo or +P SAAMI spec ammo.

All that's being suggested is that pressure info be found out just to be sure.

NATO spec may be marketing. Meaning that if the military has high requirements and standards then that this ammo is manufactured in that manner and will perform that way.

So there are two possiblities here that for safety reasons that need to considered.
Not taking Alden to task here. Just concerned that things may not be what they seem as far as pressures go.
He's right.Stronger recoil springs are necessary for more powerful ammo.
 

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Your right Qwiks, Nato ammo most often made to +P standards except that I think the ammo he's talking about first was made by winchester. Winchester will do major lots of "nato" ammo but they will make it to SAAMI specs. Also you will see 9mm Nato on the headstamp and it not actually made to Nato specs, the reason being is that 9mm Nato is considered a common term for a caliber. You will now see it more often than the 9mm Parabellum, 9x19, and my personal favorite 9mm Luger. The "Nato" ammo you have to look out for is the stuff made overseas. Nato as an organization has all agreed to make and supply their armies with similar weapons that require the ability to chamber the same ammo. In theory everyone is playing with the same sheet music, however you will get a country who, for some reason will produce a lot of ammo that is perfectly fine for their weapons, but will most certainly cause a failure for another member's gun. So while the Germans with their HK pistols can ingest a steady diet of hot stuff, the Italians and their berettas have to be more careful, same for the US and GB. Even though they have come a long way in correcting the problems I would still be wary of old lots of surplus ammo.
 

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Kind of figured that, Ace. Problem is that Winchester in the past had made some really hot, high pressured +P+ NATO spec ammo for the military. Stuff like that has gotten out on the market as surplus or bargain ammo so wanted to make sure things were all right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks to all of you for your replies. I was just looking for some good cheap range fodder. With all that's been said here, I believe I'll just pass on it for now. Thanks again.
 

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Enough guessing and counter-guessing I figured: I went straight to the mounted-horses mouth but Winchester refused to let me know what the pressures were because they are NATO spec and consider it secret! 'course they'll give it to a lawyer when, not if, they get sued for somebody hurting themself or someoe else due to this clear negligence on their part. ;) In any case, I have referred it to the distributor who may have better luck or I'll get it from a US Military armorer -- will that make you all happy?

Wish me luck...

Alden
 

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Friends;
Eric at Ammoman volunteered to go to Winchester to get the stats on the 124gr. 9mm NATO they sold me before I went to them myself. When WInchester refused I did go back to Eric a couple of times in the intervening weeks w/no further response. Should I hear from him I will let you know...
Alden
 
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