9mm ammo?
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Do you like to scrub and scrub? Lead fouls up everywhere. I used to shoot LRN in my revolver, but I learned my lesson. What a mess. No more for me. I've never shot it in my Semi-auto. I can't imagine what kind of mess it would make.
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32,647 Posts
I'm goiong to piggyback on what DRAEGER said. Except this has to do with SilverBear and Wolf.
Despite "conventional wisdom" Wolf and SilverBear ammo (both Russian made) are quality products.
www.wolfammo.com has some of the info. They're going to make me do this the hard way.
Wolf has several types of coating that are on the casings. There are the regular steel cased ones. Polymer coated cases and one that has a brass coating or something similar, but it is still a steel cased ammo that is berdan primed. Not a good idea to try and reload steel cases anyway. Won't go into all that here, but just tos ay the reloading steel is or can be a major hassle for many reasons.
Some semi-autos do have a problem with any steel cased ammo. Steel doesn't have the give that normal brass does. This can lead to feed and function failures. That is why trying several boxes to start with is a good idea. Then if the gun functions well with it buy in bulk.
Wolf coated the outside of the cases with polymer that allows easier firing and extraction without the hangups. Same goes for the metal coated steel cases.
SilverBear took a slightly different path. SB ammo has a thin outer coating of nickel for easy function and operation. Brown Bear ammo(Silver Bear's Cousin) has a cheap bi-metal casing, but the result is the same as for the nickel coated cases.Brown Bear is normally a bit cheaper than it's cousin
Ah yes. www.gzanders.com should get you to the SB and BB website.
I use Silver Bear in my PT111 Mil/pro and Ruger P95DCs. Have had excellent results all around. Use the ammo for practice and some competitions.
Steel casings can be hard on the interior of a gun. With the coating on the cases this takes the sting out of that. No signs of wear after 4000 rounds of use through the Rugers alone,each.
So others here can vouch for Wolf or SB and BB ammo.
If that doesn't float your boat then there is the Winchester White box ammo that is cheap to shoot and is American made.
Wolf needs to update their website. It has 2006 all over it and no mention of the Polyperformance ammo or the other similar rounds.
Ah yes,places to get ammo.
ARIZONA
J and G Sales, Ltd.
440 Miller Valley Rd. - Prescott, AZ 86301 (Phone: 928-445-9650)
www.jgsales.com
OHIO
AIM Advanced Int'l Marketing
3801 Lefferson Rd. - Middletown, OH 45044 (Phone: 513-424-9960)
www.aimsurplus.com
The Ammunition Store
6533 Promler Ave. - North Canton, OH 44720 (Phone: 800-432-0255)
www.ammunitionstore.com
TEXAS
Cheaper Than Dirt
2522 NE Loop 820 - Fort Worth, TX 76106 (Phone: 800-421-8047)
www.cheaperthandirt.com
That should give you a few places to check out.Did order from everyone listed except the Ammunition store. No problems to report and check all the mentioned sites to see who had the values at the time.
Despite "conventional wisdom" Wolf and SilverBear ammo (both Russian made) are quality products.
www.wolfammo.com has some of the info. They're going to make me do this the hard way.
Wolf has several types of coating that are on the casings. There are the regular steel cased ones. Polymer coated cases and one that has a brass coating or something similar, but it is still a steel cased ammo that is berdan primed. Not a good idea to try and reload steel cases anyway. Won't go into all that here, but just tos ay the reloading steel is or can be a major hassle for many reasons.
Some semi-autos do have a problem with any steel cased ammo. Steel doesn't have the give that normal brass does. This can lead to feed and function failures. That is why trying several boxes to start with is a good idea. Then if the gun functions well with it buy in bulk.
Wolf coated the outside of the cases with polymer that allows easier firing and extraction without the hangups. Same goes for the metal coated steel cases.
SilverBear took a slightly different path. SB ammo has a thin outer coating of nickel for easy function and operation. Brown Bear ammo(Silver Bear's Cousin) has a cheap bi-metal casing, but the result is the same as for the nickel coated cases.Brown Bear is normally a bit cheaper than it's cousin
Ah yes. www.gzanders.com should get you to the SB and BB website.
I use Silver Bear in my PT111 Mil/pro and Ruger P95DCs. Have had excellent results all around. Use the ammo for practice and some competitions.
Steel casings can be hard on the interior of a gun. With the coating on the cases this takes the sting out of that. No signs of wear after 4000 rounds of use through the Rugers alone,each.
So others here can vouch for Wolf or SB and BB ammo.
If that doesn't float your boat then there is the Winchester White box ammo that is cheap to shoot and is American made.
Wolf needs to update their website. It has 2006 all over it and no mention of the Polyperformance ammo or the other similar rounds.
Ah yes,places to get ammo.
ARIZONA
J and G Sales, Ltd.
440 Miller Valley Rd. - Prescott, AZ 86301 (Phone: 928-445-9650)
www.jgsales.com
OHIO
AIM Advanced Int'l Marketing
3801 Lefferson Rd. - Middletown, OH 45044 (Phone: 513-424-9960)
www.aimsurplus.com
The Ammunition Store
6533 Promler Ave. - North Canton, OH 44720 (Phone: 800-432-0255)
www.ammunitionstore.com
TEXAS
Cheaper Than Dirt
2522 NE Loop 820 - Fort Worth, TX 76106 (Phone: 800-421-8047)
www.cheaperthandirt.com
That should give you a few places to check out.Did order from everyone listed except the Ammunition store. No problems to report and check all the mentioned sites to see who had the values at the time.
Joined
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4,084 Posts
I went to the local Wal-Mart this morning. While I was there I decided to pick up a couple of boxes of 9 mm. Fat chance. The ammo shelves were virtually empty. I asked the salesman when they were expecting a shipment. He had no idea. He said that the Chinese are buying up all of the worlds lead for some project they are doing. I hope they're not going to return it,124 grains at a time. btw They are also buying up a lot of copper.
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32,647 Posts
What every one forgets is the Chinese are girding for war. They have publicly stated that they are going to go on a war of total annihilation of everybody including us.They said they are going to use any means to do it. This is from within and without the country as well. We have millions of Chinese "visiting" and have never gone home.
Our weapons labs(nuclear included) were penetrated and all our military secrets were given away by the Clinton Administration.
Poison gas, nuclear and biological warfare, murder, wholesale slaughter of civilians, and other forms of genocide are on their agenda. All this has been documented as well.
Granted their industry is geared for production, but the factories are state run in China and Russia plus Europe are selling the latest in military hardware and software.
This has been documented by the goverment, Soldier of Fortune magazine, and other sourcesdirect from Chinese goverment and military speeches, military papers, memos,and intelligence gathering.
The public is not paying attention.
Sorry to hijack the thread, but those are the reasons for why China is buying up even scrap metal and anything else of value.
Oh yes. Ruining our economy was also mentioned as a way of "beating" us.
Yeah, yeah. Back on track.
Our weapons labs(nuclear included) were penetrated and all our military secrets were given away by the Clinton Administration.
Poison gas, nuclear and biological warfare, murder, wholesale slaughter of civilians, and other forms of genocide are on their agenda. All this has been documented as well.
Granted their industry is geared for production, but the factories are state run in China and Russia plus Europe are selling the latest in military hardware and software.
This has been documented by the goverment, Soldier of Fortune magazine, and other sourcesdirect from Chinese goverment and military speeches, military papers, memos,and intelligence gathering.
The public is not paying attention.
Sorry to hijack the thread, but those are the reasons for why China is buying up even scrap metal and anything else of value.
Oh yes. Ruining our economy was also mentioned as a way of "beating" us.
Yeah, yeah. Back on track.
WHAT!!!! Time to stock up on hallow points and shotgun shells just in case of an envasion.Qwiks draw said:What every one forgets is the Chinese are girding for war. They have publicly stated that they are going to go on a war of total annihilation of everybody including us.They said they are going to use any means to do it. This is from within and without the country as well. We have millions of Chinese "visiting" and have never gone home.
Our weapons labs(nuclear included) were penetrated and all our military secrets were given away by the Clinton Administration.
Poison gas, nuclear and biological warfare, murder, wholesale slaughter of civilians, and other forms of genocide are on their agenda. All this has been documented as well.
Granted their industry is geared for production, but the factories are state run in China and Russia plus Europe are selling the latest in military hardware and software.
This has been documented by the goverment, Soldier of Fortune magazine, and other sourcesdirect from Chinese goverment and military speeches, military papers, memos,and intelligence gathering.
The public is not paying attention.
Sorry to hijack the thread, but those are the reasons for why China is buying up even scrap metal and anything else of value.
Oh yes. Ruining our economy was also mentioned as a way of "beating" us.
Yeah, yeah. Back on track.
Joined
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35,281 Posts
I shoot a lot of lead, even in 9mm. I cast it myself and load it myself. If it's loaded mild, and most factory reloads are, there's no problem running lead. If it does lead up a little, just fire a few jacketed bullets through the bore to clean it out, but I've never had a big problem in 9mm, .45acp and colt, .38, .357 (though I use gas checks for hot .357 stuff) and even .380 ACP. Lead is accurate, lead is safe, and lets face it, lead is what God intended to be fired in a gun. ROFL! I have pushed gas checked cast lead bullets up to 1900 fps in my Rossi M92 .357 rifle without leading. I don't worry about standard cast bullets in a nine so long as it's loaded under 1300 fps or so. I always anneal my bullets, but I rarely mess with adding tin to harden it.
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35,281 Posts
BTW, did you see the post in the reloading forum on the new OSHA rules being considered? It's rumors and actual stuff like that which cause people to hoard. I saw that about 8 or 9 years ago with primers, people hoarding primers due to some rumors about a law or something that never came about. You had to go down to the gun shop and get on a LIST and your primers would be here in about 90 days. Hope we ain't headed into that again.
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32,647 Posts
To be truthful all these guys have very good points about lead ammo. So it comes down to what you want to put up with.
Have shot some lead loads that had the bore so fouled I had to quit shooting after 20 rounds went down range. And then there were those that the lead bullets were of sufficient hardness that this was not a major problem as others have stated that it would not be.
If a thumbnail or fingernail can cause a scratch on the surface of the bullet, it may be too soft and will or can cause trouble.
As with all lead products wash the hands after use. This may be stating the obvious, but it needed to be said.
Have shot some lead loads that had the bore so fouled I had to quit shooting after 20 rounds went down range. And then there were those that the lead bullets were of sufficient hardness that this was not a major problem as others have stated that it would not be.
If a thumbnail or fingernail can cause a scratch on the surface of the bullet, it may be too soft and will or can cause trouble.
As with all lead products wash the hands after use. This may be stating the obvious, but it needed to be said.
Joined
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35,281 Posts
Well, think about it, how many .22LR high velocity lead rounds have you fired out of a .22 rifle? I've fired about a bazillion and they're cookin' up over 1200 fps out of a rifle barrel. The alloy matters, but up to about 1000 fps, even soft pure lead is fine in my guns. I cast mine of range scrap which will no doubt has some antimony in it. I've used 50-50 tin solder to harden high velocity bullets, about 10 percent tin max, but don't really see the need for normal handgun velocities. I shoot a lot of .38 wadcutter at about 800 fps. Factory hollow base wadcutter is almost always pure soft lead which helps the pressure in the case expand the hollow base of the bullet out into the rifling much as a minie ball works in black powder rifles.
Where you run into leading is using pure lead bullets with no gas check at 1300+ fps. Then, it will lead every time. You can push hard cast (hard alloy and annealed) bullets to 1400 fps or so without leading, but I prefer using a gas check design for magnum caliber guns. Slower powders can melt the base of the bullet as well as the velocity scrubbing lead off down the bore and the gas check cures that.
Where you run into leading is using pure lead bullets with no gas check at 1300+ fps. Then, it will lead every time. You can push hard cast (hard alloy and annealed) bullets to 1400 fps or so without leading, but I prefer using a gas check design for magnum caliber guns. Slower powders can melt the base of the bullet as well as the velocity scrubbing lead off down the bore and the gas check cures that.
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18,080 Posts
In the past, I've had no problems shooting Lead Bullets out of handguns, Hardcast or Soft Swaged. One of my Bore Cleaning tips for Lead Bullet use is to clean the bore with a Nylon Bore Brush with patches soaked with Noxon7 Metal Cleaner/Polish. Use patches soaked with plain tap water to remove Noxon7 from the bore after cleaning, followed by a dry patch, as oil based solvents won't cut it!
As for the Chinese, yes, they are coming for us! Have stockpiled GI ammo cans of Ammunition, for which I have been roundly criticized, by the unknowing!
As for the OSHA threat, it's real! Even the NRA is now up in arms about it!
http://www.nraila.org/legislation/federal/read.aspx?id=3145&issue=
As for the Chinese, yes, they are coming for us! Have stockpiled GI ammo cans of Ammunition, for which I have been roundly criticized, by the unknowing!
As for the OSHA threat, it's real! Even the NRA is now up in arms about it!
http://www.nraila.org/legislation/federal/read.aspx?id=3145&issue=
Joined
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40,147 Posts
I'm with you NativeTexan. Lead is not a problem to shoot. The lube can be quite dirty, but not a problem. I would rather spend a little more time cleaning than spend a lot more money on jacketed bullets for practice. Reloading is the only way to go for folks who shoot a lot. :thumb:
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