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How would a LEO deal with a 80% Glock if it were found without serial numbers while you were carrying it? Is it legal to carry and if so, would your average LEO know that?
 

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How would a LEO deal with a 80% Glock if it were found without serial numbers while you were carrying it? Is it legal to carry and if so, would your average LEO know that?
I don't have one and I doubt I ever will, but I've read quite a bit about home built rifles because someday I'm going to try that! Anyway, from what I read, it is common to put one's own stamp on the gun, just so if someone comes across it, they think nothing of it because it has a "serial" number. You may not want to mark up your gun, but hey, if you don't mind it, come up with your own numbering scheme and put one on there.
 

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It is still legal to build your own firearm in most states. There is no requirement to create a serial number or etch in some kind of tracking number/phrase. A self built firearm can not be sold or traded, it is only legal for the actual builder to possess. However I can about guarantee if you are involved in a traffic stop or a self defense shooting, and the officer sees no serial on the gun, you will be going downtown. Probably spend some time in lockup while they try and figure out how to record the firearm. But once again it is legal in most states, you may need an attorney to explain it to them. Here is the rub, any thing else they find in your possession , or if you have any outstanding warrant that is related to sex harassment or old felony. They will still upcharge you for possessing an unregistered firearm and leave it up to you to prove in court the firearm is legal and is not related to any other charge. Freedom is not free.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
There were too many cases over the years in Pennsylvania of LEOs that did not understand that we have no laws against open carry and as a result many OCs were held at gunpoint, thrown to the ground and disarmed and when all else failed arrested for creating a disturbance. Of course lawsuits ensued and an education was gained, but harassment can and does still occur. I could see the same sort of treatment for anyone found to be carrying a gun without a serial number which of course would also be blamed on a lack of education. While the law may be on your side, it's hollow succor to a man spending the weekend in jail.
 

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^^^^^^^^^

What were the charges or grounds for detainment when cases such as what you describe occur? And, how long have OC laws been on the books/common knowledge? Were the folks you referred to the object of “Swatting”?

In Ga. both OC and CC have been allowed for as long as I recall. With a permit, of course. But our gun laws also protect the citizen in that it is illegal for LEO to ask to see your GWCL nor is it lawful that you, as a citizen, are obligated to show your GWCL with traffic stops; and I suspect the prohibition to show your permit is void if you are being detained for due cause. And, just being able to produce a GWCL upon request still doesn’t mean you didn’t commit a crime.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
^^^^^^^^^

What were the charges or grounds for detainment when cases such as what you describe occur? And, how long have OC laws been on the books/common knowledge? Were the folks you referred to the object of “Swatting”?

In Ga. both OC and CC have been allowed for as long as I recall. With a permit, of course. But our gun laws also protect the citizen in that it is illegal for LEO to ask to see your GWCL nor is it lawful that you, as a citizen, are obligated to show your GWCL with traffic stops; and I suspect the prohibition to show your permit is void if you are being detained for due cause. And, just being able to produce a GWCL upon request still doesn’t mean you didn’t commit a crime.
We have no laws against open carry in PA. unless your in Philadelphia or in a vehicle. Under those circumstances a carry permit is required to carry a loaded weapon, open or concealed. That would be the same permit which is required for concealed carry throughout the state. In most cases when someone was detained for open carry it became a case of "we wanted to make sure the gun wasn't stolen" or "how were we to know you weren't a criminal" and lastly as a catchall, the charge of disturbing the peace because some citizen was alarmed by your open display of a gun. All of these have been fought in court and have been determined not to be valid. In many cases suits were filed and won.
 

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As far as I know, California is the only state that requires a serial number, even on the home built ones. I know Alabama does not. If I remember, California allowed you to put any serial number you wished on 80% pistols up until Jun of 2018, but I think you have to submit paperwork after that date and they will assign you a serial number.

You are probably going to be better off with something resembling a serial number on your 80% pistol, just because few police know how to deal with a firearm without a serial number. I talked to a local police chief and he said it would not be a problem, as long as any shooting was justified. But we were talking about using such a pistol, not for a pull over, check, or something along that line.

I will also tell you that the Polymer80 frames do not take a stamp on their serial number tag worth a flip, you better plan on laser etching. I have thought about having all of my 80% Glocks etched with the same serial number, just so they would all come back to my original Glock. If they ask, I could tell them I modified it.

BTW, I CC a couple of my 80% Glocks. The old police chief told me the only real issue in a shooting is whether, or not it was justified, not whether the gun was legal, or not.
 
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As far as I know, California is the only state that requires a serial number, even on the home built ones. I know Alabama does not. If I remember, California allowed you to put any serial number you wished on 80% pistols up until Jun of 2018, but I think you have to submit paperwork after that date and they will assign you a serial number.

You are probably going to be better off with something resembling a serial number on your 80% pistol, just because few police know how to deal with a firearm without a serial number. I talked to a local police chief and he said it would not be a problem, as long as any shooting was justified. But we were talking about using such a pistol, not for a pull over, check, or something along that line.

I will also tell you that the Polymer80 frames do not take a stamp on their serial number tag worth a flip, you better plan on laser etching. I have thought about having all of my 80% Glocks etched with the same serial number, just so they would all come back to my original Glock. If they ask, I could tell them I modified it.

BTW, I CC a couple of my 80% Glocks. The old police chief told me the only real issue in a shooting is whether, or not it was justified, not whether the gun was legal, or not.

What an interesting idea. Wouldn't that throw the feds in a tizzy if there were a half a dozen guns with the same serial number?
 

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What an interesting idea. Wouldn't that throw the feds in a tizzy if there were a half a dozen guns with the same serial number?
LOL, about the same as if they found a half dozen without any serial numbers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Now Pittsburg is another animal altogether. I can't keep track of the screwy laws they've tried to impose that run counter to state law.

"City Council passed three gun control bills in a 6-3 vote. The measures ban the use of some assault weapons as well as most uses of armor-piercing ammunition and high-capacity magazines, and let courts confiscate guns from people within city limits who are deemed an “extreme risk” to others or themselves."

"One sticking point: Pennsylvania law blocks cities from regulating guns."

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/3/18293583/pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting-gun-control
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
"While Pennsylvania has a specific law that requires a License To Carry Firearms for the concealed carry of a firearm, and the carry of firearms in vehicles, the law is silent on the legality of openly carrying a firearm in other situations, making it de-facto legal."

"we would like to point out that there is much debate among firearm owners about whether openly carrying firearms is really a good idea. While we will leave that choice to the individual we will state that in many urban areas (namely Philadelphia) doing so will draw unwanted attention from law enforcement that may include (but not be limited to) the following repercussions:

Being stopped and questioned by law enforcement.
Having your License To Carry Firearms seized and sent back for revocation.
Being arrested either improperly or for other charges like disturbing the peace or creating a public nuisance.
While this may not happen should you choose to carry openly, many urban law enforcement officers we have talked to have expressed a very negative opinion towards the idea. Some have suggested that law enforcement will do everything in their power to make your life difficult should you choose to."

http://www.pafoa.org/law/carrying-firearms/open-carry/
 

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I'm retired after spending 35 years in police work. I did part of it as a training officer, meaning all the "new stuff" came to me to disseminate to the other officers, so I think I'm in a position to know what the cops have been taught. To answer the original question: I don't think anyone knows what to do if they were to discover an 80%. The first reaction would be to question it - a LOT - and possibly confiscate it. I know, that's not what anyone wants to hear, but don't kill the messenger. The fact is that unless a state legislature has progressed past trying to figure out every which way to confiscate firearms, they haven't bothered to educate themselves about 80% guns. In turn, unless the cop is "into" guns (fewer and fewer are these days) he or she isn't going to know what he's looking at. Unless a senior officer or supervisor has personal knowledge about 80%, it's going to be a difficult encounter for the owner if an officer doesn't know the real story about 80%. Yes, you probably will get it back, you might get arrested, you might be able to sue, etc., etc., but the bottom line is 80% is not very well known and will likely be treated as an illegal firearm. Like I said, not what anyone wants to hear, but there it is.
 

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Back to where we started with this. Putting a serial number on your 80% firearm is a good idea, if for no other reason than it does not raise alarms with local LEO who don't know about 80% firearms because they see what they expect, a serial number.
 
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