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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
(EDIT: I like to ramble on when I write sometimes, so I changed text colors for those who want to jump right to the main points. ;) "Good" in blue and "Not so good" in red.)

I finally got to shoot my new 605 Protector Poly. Having read quite a bit of the good and the not so good about the handgun, I was a bit nervous to fire it for the first time. I was also intent upon determining if it would have any of the commonly reported issues by bringing along some .357 rounds as well.

The good:

Everything good I've read about this handgun is true. I fired at a basic paper target at about 7 yards (perhaps a tad further than "self defense" distances - without pushing too hard since this is a snubby). With .38 wadcutters, I fired the first 5 rounds single action and created a surprisingly tight pattern for a 2" barrel snubby. I was PLEASED. The handgun felt great firing and the recoil was very manageable. I then fired 5 more .38 wadcutters double-action at a somewhat quick pace. And although I did pull them a tad high and right, if it was an attacker, I would have landed 5 rounds in and around his heart! This little guy shoots respectably smooth and accurate! Ejecting the shells does involve a little tinkering with the cylinder to get them all out - but I attribute that to the tiny size of the handgun and not to a malfunction; an acceptable price to pay for conceal-ability. And if I really need to re-load in a hurry, why did I miss so badly with my first 5 rounds? (just sayin')

Then I fired 5 125gr PDX1 Defender .357 magnum rounds. I fired these rounds all single action, smoothly paced. I used to own a S&W Mod. 19 .357 magnum with 6" barrel and did fire a number of .357 magnum rounds with it. This 605 did not seem to have much more recoil that my old "big" S&W. Yes, it packs a wallop, but IMHO, a quite manageable wallop. My grouping wasn't as tight as the .38's, but if the target was an attacker, I would be alive today. All 5 rounds stayed within the main target area and respectably so. But I did learn that I personally will prefer .38 special or +p defender-type rounds for self defense due to the increased manageability and handling of the firearm over the .357 rounds. I'm glad to have the .357 capability, but in practical application, I find it a bit more of a novelty then a necessity.

The not good:

Then I went to eject those first 5 spent .357 rounds. Woopsie. They don't want to go. The ejector rod seemed stuck - or possibly the shell casings expanded so much from the big boom that they became literally wedged inside the cylinder. I kept trying various positions with my hand and leverage angles until finally the rod slowly pushed the casings past the point of being wedged and then they came out easily enough. I was getting very close to using a solid object to push against the ejector rod, but I didn't want to believe they could be that jammed. Issue #1 discovered. But at least in single action, I did not encounter the jammed cylinder rotation so many have noted....

Now to test double action with those .357 rounds. Now I'm nervous. Not only concerned if I will be able to eject them afterwards, but if I will now encounter the cylinder rotation jam issue. I decided I would fire at a very moderate, smooth rate. First two rounds fired great, hit target, etc. Third round.... cylinder doesn't rotate all the way to the 3rd round - trigger won't pull all the way - it's "jammed". I cannot cock the hammer back manually either. 2nd issue now discovered. I was able to open the cylinder. I re-closed at the same spot and still no rotate double action and no manual cock. It is stuck from going further at that point. Grrrr! I decided that was the end of my test. I removed the 3 unspent rounds easily, but the first two made me work all over again with the ejector rod in order to finally get them out.


Conclusion:

I was glad I read of the various issues encountered with this model so far. It kept me from being overly frustrated. It allowed me to appreciate all the good things that I had read about this model, which I experienced yesterday first hand. For such a small revolver, this little guy handles like a champ! It is genuinely a pleasure to shoot and it will become my first concealed carry firearm when I begin to carry. But even once I fix the .357 issues, I will still choose .38 specialty rounds for self defense purposes.

Hmmm... I could leave the handgun as is and never use .357 rounds again, but I certainly don't think that would be the wisest decision. Whatever happened while using the .357 rounds "could" happen with .38 rounds. And the main reason I bought a revolver for self defense purposes is due to my old school belief in their reliability.

So I will very soon be sending this handgun in to Taurus. What else can I do? I will call them Monday or Tuesday to begin the process.

I am still nervous about the repair-ability of these issues. As much as I read up on this, it's been a while and I don't recall the feedback from those who already have had these issues "repaired" by Taurus. Can anyone comment on their own repair experience with similar issues? Did the issue(s) get resolved?
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I overlooked mentioning that I did conclude the shooting session with 5 more rounds .38 wadcutters. I fired these double-action and very rapidly. Awesome! And they ejected just fine as well. Fortunately, their performance was not hindered by the issues I had with the .357 rounds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have moved since buying my 605 Poly. I bought it at an Academy in my old neighborhood. Yesterday, I asked the gun counter guy at the Academy in my new area about shipping this back to Taurus - if I could handle it through his store. He said I would have to go the original store where I bought it because each store has the records of the registered gun owners. Huh? I said, "don't you guys have all that on electronic file across the whole country?". Anyway, he really didn't know, so I said I would call Taurus and then Academy if needed still.

Do I "need" to ship this through Academy? I recently shipped a Beretta handgun to Beretta for recall work. They had me print out a prepaid UPS shipping label and UPS picked it up at my house. UPS delivered back to my house as well (adult signature required). Taurus says (per web FAQ) if it is legal in your state, and you fill out a work order (available through their web site), you can ship it directly to them. The FAQ did not go on to say that they would ship directly back to you or a licensed firearms dealer nearby.

Should I call someone else at Academy and go through them (letting them cover the shipping costs) or do it myself direct to Taurus?
 

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Call Taurus first, the least number of people involved will keep things much less prone from getting screwed up..IE" Keep it Simple.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
jonrjen - I agree with the "keep it simple". I'll follow Taurus' directive on this one.
And, you are welcome. I realize I wound up writing more of a "review" than just a "problems" post. The problems forum seemed to be the right place for it, but I do hope others come across it for its positive information as well. :D
 

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Zenmag, I had a thought, if you already thought of this I may have missed it. As you also have model 19 I am sure you are familiar with the fact that .357 cases are longer than .38's and if you shoot .38's before the .357 the cylinder can get power and whatnot built up making it hard to insert and eject the .357 cases, especially if the .38's happened to be a dirty round.

I had the same issue with my Model 19 this past weekend, I shot about 50 38's the switched to .357 and had extraction problems like you had.

Just a thought but maybe scrub out the cylinder real good (use the .40 cal brush to get a good job) then try the .357's first before the .38's and see what happens.
 

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I'm also looking to get a 605 poly, and read elsewhere that like most guns, they need a sufficient break-in period.

As for the repair, I sent a gun in recently, and Taurus e-mailed me a prepaid shipping label and will be shipping it right back to me once it's finished... I wouldn't even bother with Academy even though the clerk is wrong about any store being able to assist you.

No national chain is going to tell somebody who just moved from California to Florida that he has to go all the way back to California to rectify an issue he has with a product they sold him... if they try to tell you that, they're just trying to get out of addressing it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
@ fredg - I have read that very line of thought and it does make sense. But I'm not sure that this would address the jam in cylinder rotation.

@ GR8RU2 - I do plan to stick with Taurus alone for any repair shipping situations (unless they direct to me to use Academy).
And I have considered that my handgun has had no "breaking in" period. It seems I've read in other posts that my very issues have cleared up after the break in. But I don't have a clear recollection.

My 605 Poly did perform admirably in all other respects and handled .38's like a champ.

I will still call Taurus and see if they might agree that these issues could clear up with a proper break-in. And I could also ask their opinion or knowledge of improved performance if I only used .357's (or used them first) in a target shooting session - rather than using .38's first as I did (and thus possibly dirtying up part of the cylinder... affecting ejecting of the longer shell).

I'd be happy not to send this in right away for repair work - especially prematurely. I'll try to reach Taurus on or before tomorrow evening and see just what they advise. And of course, I'll update here.
 

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@ fredg - I have read that very line of thought and it does make sense. But I'm not sure that this would address the jam in cylinder rotation.
It might if the buildup in the cylinder is causing the case to not fully seat thereby causing it to drag on the blast shield. Good luck!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It might if the buildup in the cylinder is causing the case to not fully seat thereby causing it to drag on the blast shield. Good luck!!
Good point!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well, I have mulled this over a bit and decided not to rush to send this in to Taurus. Yeah, I might lose out on that first free shipping (within 6 months of purchase), but the ejecting and very possibly the cylinder rotation lock-up could be indeed related to first firing .38's and then switching over to .357's in the same shooting session. Not to mention the gun has a long way to go before being broken in. With today's very limited ammo availability, it will take a while to break in.

BUT - I did make one observation when cleaning it after my initial shooting session. I found a tiny fleck of possibly lead sort of stuck to the outside of the forcing cone. I don't think that's utterly abnormal. Or should I be concerned about that? I suppose I could do the flashlight check for alignment issues?
 

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Awhile back, I bought a 357 Tracker, and it started binding up on the second cylinder. After reading the many reviews of this problem in Taurus revolvers, I was so frustrated that I traded it in for a Ruger GP100. Problem solved. A few weeks ago, I took the Taurus plunge again. This time, I bought a 605 .357 2" snubbie. Started out like you, shooting 38 Spl in the first cylinder. Second round, and the cylinder started binding, just like last time. My heart started to sink, but I worked with it for a little while, and after one more episode of binding, I spent the rest of my range visit with no problems. I started a thread about this, and one of the responses was:

There's a thread here somewhere addressing that issue, but I'm not inclined to go searching for it right now. The gist is that the cylinder pin that presses against the transfer bar hangs up and doesn't allow the cylinder to freely rotate. My 617 was doing that on occasion, and I disassembled it and polished both the pin and the hole in the cylinder to free up its motion. That did the trick.

I came across your thread while looking for the one referenced above. I really like this gun. It's accurate and I find with lower end 357 loads, the recoil isn't a problem at all. The upper end are not much fun, but in a SD situation, I don't think I'd mind too much. Haven't had a chance to go back out yet, but probably will this weekend. If the binding issue is just a break-in glitch, I'm bummed that I didn't stick it out with the Tracker, too. That was a sweet shooter.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Well, I have to rescind my statement about allowing for further break-in. I decided today that IF my issues merit a warranty repair, then I would rather do it within that first 6 month after purchase time frame for the full, free "to and from" shipping paid for by Taurus.

I phoned Taurus CS today asking them to please tell me if the issue merits a warranty repair or if in fact it just needs further breaking in. When I described my issues (see opening post), the CS rep quickly told me that this was an issue that requires repair and that their gunsmith's will need to take care of this issue.

He (Mike) determined when I bought the gun and told me that shipping would be paid for by Taurus. Within minutes I had a prepaid FedEx shipping label setup emailed to me. The call itself to Taurus didn't take long at all either. I was connected to someone within 3 minutes of dialing and the longest wait was for about 3 minutes while on hold as Mike setup my prepaid shipping label to email me.

I will be shipping my 605 Poly on Monday and update here. I was told that currently it may be a 3 to 4 week turnaround time. I'm in no hurry. I want this gun to function totally reliably. After all, it is marketed for self defense and I bought it for home and self defense - it HAS to be reliable. I am more than willing to give Taurus the chance to straighten this one out. It is a GREAT little gun!

PS -
When the call was coming to a close, I did ask Mike if in fact the 605 poly should readily fire .38's and .357's interchangeably with no issues - and he said, "absolutely".
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Alrighty then.... The little bugger shipped out today to Miami. Picked up at my local FedEx Hub at 3:07 pm CST. Bon Voyage little one!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Picked up my 605 today at a FedEx shipping center.

Won't be able to test fire it to ensure the repairs are solid for a week or two. It sure looks clean and oily though!

Here are the 3 items listed on the warranty repair letter enclosed with the handgun:

Under "Point of Failure" "Area of Concern" "Diagnostic Code" and "Closed", the following 3 items were noted:

Function, Cylinder Headspace, Undersized, Adjusted
Function, Barrel Forcing Cone, Undersized, Adjusted
Function, Cylinder Chamber, Undersized, CID

I tried googling "CID" and really couldn't quite determine its meaning in this context.

Anyone know what "CID" means in terms of a gun repair?
 

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Cylinder doesn't rotate

I had a similar problem with a new Public Defender Judge. Spent a lot of time trying different 410 ammunition. To make a long story short, the trigger and hammer would lock up without any ammunition in it and the cylinder empty. I was sitting in a chair putting empty shells in it looking at the primers and discovered where the actual problem was. When you pull the hammer back some, then gently release it, the cylinder would get out-of-time and that was causing it to jam. I would pull the hammer back to rotate the cylinder so a specific kind of ammunition would fire first and it would jam. Once it was out-of-time, it was easy enough to rotate the cylinder until it locked into place, then it would fire.
It would always fire in single or double action modes, but it you cocked the hammer for single action, then happened to touch or move the cylinder and got it out-of-time, it would lock up. This is not a desirable function for a revolver. I went back and checked all of my other revolvers and the Taurus was the only one with this unique trait. The others would continue to rotate the cylinder when you pulled the trigger until it fired.

So the bottom line is, if your revolver jams with live ammunition, it may not be the ammunition at all. To check it, remove all ammunition from the cylinder, pull the hammer back a little, then gently release it and pull the trigger. Do this in several different increments like 1/4 turn, 1/2 turn and 3/4 turn to advance it to the next round on all of your cylinders. If none of them drag, get stiff or lock up and jam, then you revolver doesn't have this condition and you can continue to find which ammunition fires best in your revolver.

Hope this helps in solving your problems,

Own2
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Interesting Own2. Thx for the food for thought. Sounds like that couldn't hurt. I could check it out with my snap caps in place in to save any dry fire wear. Even still, I am going to test with live ammo within a couple weeks.

But, Own2, if my revolver does display this characteristic, would you suggest that I send it back to Taurus?


On another, yet similar note....

The Taurus repair sheet also stated that it was tested using 15 rounds Winchester .357 158gr (forgot the rest of the type). And that is encouraging to know. But what I wished they had done was to have tested it by firing about 10 rounds of .38 ammo first and then go to .357 (like I did when it jammed - which I described to them in the enclosed letter with my revolver). But still, the fact remains - that action could still potentially create circumstances for a jam by leading the unused cylinder space when firing the shorter cased .38 rounds, making it a tight fit for .357 rounds. None the less, it should be able to handle even that type of an ammo interchange without jamming. Even though in reality, I don't see too many occasions where I will need to switch ammo types from .38 to .357, I would simply have more overall confidence in the revolver if I knew it wouldn't jam even under those circumstances.

We shall see when I go test firing. ;)

I am hoping for the best.
 

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Zenmag:

You asked if your revolver does display this characteristic, would I suggest that you send it back to Taurus? The answer is yes.

First let me say the purpose of the post, is to say if your revolver jams, check the revolver first to see if it does it without live ammunition. If the revolver does not appear to jam on it's own, then the problem is the ammunition alone, or that ammunition in your revolver. In my case I returned the revolver for repair and it was returned and still jammed without any ammunition. I was told that if the revolver would fire in double action mode, it was considered to work properly. I feel that when you pull the hammer back some, then lower the hammer to the original position, the cylinder will be between two chambers in the cylinder. The next time you pull the trigger, the cylinder should advance to the chamber and fire. Taurus revolvers don't always do this, sometimes the trigger and hammer jam. I just don't feel confortable carrying a revolver that may or may not fire depending on the position of the cylinder.

I have observed that Taurus handguns often require more of a break in period than others. There are small rough edges that need to wear down to function smoothly. I now have a Taurus Judge that functions properly and I am comfortable with, but it would not have happened if I had been satisfied with Taurus's level of quality.

Own2
 

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I have a 605SS-2. Not poly, but the same gun in SS. At first, the gun I purchased that was supposed to be new ... WASN'T! I had the same problems you experienced with .357 not ejecting. After continued problems and a good inspection, it was found the gun had been fired quite a bit. It wasn't new. :mad: I cleaned the heck out of it and finally got it where it would function properly. Then I found some other problems with it, sent it back to Taurus and they sent me a brand new gun (last year). But I had your same problems with the used gun.

38 left a lot of powder residue in the chambers and 357 would jam every time. Cylinder wouldn't turn, wouldn't open easily and 5 casings jammed tighter than imaginable! The new gun is as flawless as flawless can be! I just did a trigger job on it and made a good gun even better.

But too much 38 without good cleaning can cause a LOT of problems with 357, so be forewarned.
 
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