45 colt pressure vs 3' 410 000 buck pressure

5519 Views 13 Replies 7 Participants Last post by Walrus, Apr 1, 2018

Walrus

Discussion Starter · Mar 29, 2018

Does anyone here have the data on the difference in pressure from fairly standard .45 colt to 410 gauge 3" 000 buck (like Federal handgun)?

I'm curious because of the difference in felt recoil...

I love having a community of experts to pick the brains of...

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Troll

· #2 · Mar 29, 2018

It's not the pressure, but the weight of the projectile that changes the perceived recoil. I'll give you an example. When I shoot one of my .50 cal muzzle loaders with 180 gr patched roundball, I use 70 Gr of powder. The recoil is quite reasonable for a big bore rifle, but if I use the same charge with a 400 gr great plains bullet, or a 380 gr minie' ball, the recoil is about double

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GreenWolf70

· #3 · Mar 29, 2018

The standard max pressure for the .45LC is 14,000 psi. I don't know the pressure for the #000 buck shot, but I suspect it is low. However, my 2.5" chambered, 4" barreled Judge kicks considerably more shooting Speer 250 grain Gold Dots than does the Federal PD #000 buck shot rounds. I have a stainless steel Judge, so it is a bit on the heavy side and the Buck Shot rounds don't kick that much. The .45LC rounds generally give you a little more push back than the shotgun rounds.

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Walrus

Discussion Starter · #4 · Mar 29, 2018

How much hotter are the Gold Dots than the Blazer 225 (I think) grain Blazer JHP? I get more felt recoil from the PDX, Federal 000, and Hornady Critical Triple than any .45 Colt I have tried, especially when shooting the 3" 410's. What this is all boiling down to is: It seems the Judge Magnum can handle (easily) hotter loads than .45 Colt standard pressure. I'm not considering Buffalo Bore +p, and I'm only spitballing this, but why not any +p ammo for the Judge?

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GreenWolf70

· #5 · Mar 30, 2018

All shotgun are relatively low pressure rounds. .45LC max SAMMI pressure is only 14,000 psi. I do not know what Blazer loads their rounds to, but I would think the Speer 250 grain Gold Dots are getting the whole 14,000 psi. Maybe it is just the weight of the bullet, I don't know. My Judge has a 2.5" chambers as I believe the shorter cylinder shoots .45LC much better than the 3" chambers. In my Judge, none of the shotgun rounds are what I would call hard recoiling and the Speer Gold Dots don't have a sharper recoil so much as a heavier recoil push. I don't know that the shotgun rounds are any louder than the .45LC rounds either.

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Aggie

· #6 · Mar 30, 2018

.45 Long Colt (toward the bottom)

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/VelocityPressureData.pdf

.410 3" 000 buck also at the end of the lists

http://saami.org/specifications_and...ions/download/Z299-2_ANSI-SAAMI_Shotshell.pdf

.45 Colt (aka .45 Long Colt) 250-255 Gr Lead (Pressure Limits) (psi/100)Velocity = 900 FPS
Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) 140
Maximum Probable Lot Mean (MPLM) 144
Maximum Probable Sample Mean 151

.410 3" Shell 000 Buck (Pressure Limits) (psi/100) Velocity = 1,080 FPS
Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) 135
Maximum Probable Lot Mean (MPLM) 141
Maximum Probable Sample Mean 151

This is good data that should answer the question.

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Echo40

· #7 · Mar 30, 2018 (Edited)

As others have said, it depends more on the weight of the projectile(s) than it does the pressure, but the pressure between Standard Pressure .45LC and 3" .410 Shells is really close. (IIRC, .45LC maximum pressure is 14,000psi and 3" .410 Bore is 13,500psi.) So generally speaking, the .45LC should have more recoil since the bullets tend to be heavier.

That being said, don't mess with .45LC +Ps. The Judge isn't rated for them, and even if it was, they're honestly excessive unless you plan on hunting big game in Alaska or something. Buffalo Bore offers a maximum power Standard Pressure .45LC load which launches a 255gr SWC bullet at 1000fps with 566ft-lbs of energy which is safe to shoot in any .45 Revolver which is rated for Smokeless Powder, meaning pretty much anything made this century can handle it. That will handle just about anything you could ever conceivably encounter in North America, (including Bears in a pinch) so you can load your Judge up with those babies with utmost confidence. In addition, they also offer a Jacketed Hollow Point variant of the same load.

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YOT

· #8 · Mar 30, 2018

A 000 buck shot weighs 70 grains. Five of them in a 3" shell total 350 grains and wallop my hand a lot more than any standard .45 Colt load I've shot.

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Walrus

Discussion Starter · #9 · Mar 31, 2018

ok... that makes sense now. I didn't realize the relationship between the projectile weight to felt recoil. I am considering reloading (loading) my own 410 and maybe 45 due to the costs of shooting them. I'm sure there is a thread here somewhere talking about the cost of getting into reloading (but I haven't found it yet). Any hints?

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Echo40

· #10 · Mar 31, 2018

Walrus said:
ok... that makes sense now. I didn't realize the relationship between the projectile weight to felt recoil. I am considering reloading (loading) my own 410 and maybe 45 due to the costs of shooting them. I'm sure there is a thread here somewhere talking about the cost of getting into reloading (but I haven't found it yet). Any hints?

Your best bet is to start poking around on the Reloads subforum.

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YOT

· #11 · Mar 31, 2018

Walrus said:
ok... that makes sense now. I didn't realize the relationship between the projectile weight to felt recoil. I am considering reloading (loading) my own 410 and maybe 45 due to the costs of shooting them. I'm sure there is a thread here somewhere talking about the cost of getting into reloading (but I haven't found it yet). Any hints?

It will take you a very long time to see any cost effective benefit to reloading shot shells, especially considering the purchase of equipment. You can buy 410 ammo cheaper. Reloading .45Colt has a rapid payoff/savings. I can reload .45Colt for about 23¢ - 27¢ each with lead or Berry's bullets. Jacketed bullets are a bit more, but still cheaper than buying factory loads. Surely a wise choice if you shoot a lot of .45Colt. I go through many more of them in my Thunderbolt than in my Judge and I'm sure it would be the same in a lever gun (or more).

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william

· #12 · Mar 31, 2018

Walrus said:
ok... that makes sense now. I didn't realize the relationship between the projectile weight to felt recoil. I am considering reloading (loading) my own 410 and maybe 45 due to the costs of shooting them. I'm sure there is a thread here somewhere talking about the cost of getting into reloading (but I haven't found it yet). Any hints?

Lots of good information here: http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/reloads/1570-reloading-faqs-those-considering-reloading-hobby.html

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Aggie

· #13 · Mar 31, 2018

I agree with reloading because I do.

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Walrus

Discussion Starter · #14 · Apr 1, 2018

super cool info. I'm definitely considering it for down the road, especially for the .45 colt. They must use platinum casings for as much as they charge... lol

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