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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
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I don't have a clue about this 357 case. I was sizing and de-priming it and noticed a ring just below the mouth. I used a micrometer on the mouth and it is .356. It also is exactly at the length of a 38 special. I tried it in my 38 special. It fits perfectly. Why would someone do this? Is there a die that will size the mouth of a 357 to fit it a 38 special. It's either been tooled or someone has a die. Oh, also the headstamp has been filed off.
I can't believe someone loaded a 38 special to 357 mag load data. The case looks good, but I think I won't use it.
Anyone ever come across this?
 

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No clue here as 38spl and 357mag can be loaded with the same dies and use the same bullets.
Matter of fact I use to load a S&W model 19 with 357 mag cases loaded to 38spl levels with cast lead bullets. Was great fun.
 

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It's marked .357 but is .38 length, right? Somebody only had a .38 and got a hold of a batch of .357 brass and trimmed them all down?

It also looks like somebody got WAY too happy with the crimp die. All that mess up at the case mouth looks like it was deformed by crimping the crap out of a bullet. I've seen a band like area like that before- not as far down the case, though- and it was caused by the crimp die being set too deep and the round being forced through the entire stroke on the press.

Then again, there's some sort of deformation right at the lip of the case (center of the lighted area, right at the lip and just below) that I can't quite make out, too. That may just be where the lip was forced deeply into a lead bullet when it was over crimped but I can't tell enough from the pic to be sure.
 
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Strange, wonder if someone was using a 9mm die only on the mouth end of the brass to size it down slightly for a 9mm or .380 bullet? Removing the head stamp would help them segregate this brass. Perhaps they were working on their own wild card cartridge.
 
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Measure the length of the case. That case looks long to me in the photo. I have seen folks try to reload the 357 Maximum using the same setting as 357 Mag.
 
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I have seen something like that before, Movie gun loads. Blanks that will work in more than one caliber firearm. The ones I have most often encountered were head stamped 5 in 1 and would fit .38-40, .44-40 and .45 Colt hand guns plus the .38-40 and .44-40 carbines.
 

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I have seen something like that before, Movie gun loads. Blanks that will work in more than one caliber firearm. The ones I have most often encountered were head stamped 5 in 1 and would fit .38-40, .44-40 and .45 Colt hand guns plus the .38-40 and .44-40 carbines.
Don't blanks usually have an enlarged flash hole? That would be something to check.
 

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Don't blanks usually have an enlarged flash hole? That would be something to check.
I have a few kinds around here somewhere that I picked up from movie sets but I cannot remember even looking at the flash hole or even if I even punched out the primers. I'll dig some out and look and post what I find.
 

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I have seen something like that before, Movie gun loads. Blanks that will work in more than one caliber firearm. The ones I have most often encountered were head stamped 5 in 1 and would fit .38-40, .44-40 and .45 Colt hand guns plus the .38-40 and .44-40 carbines.
HMM< good point!
and that might explain the highly over crimped case as well?
 
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Movie blanks have a roll crimp at the case mouth to facilitate ease of loading through magazine fed guns- sort of like the .45ACP shotshells.

That would explain the seriously jacked up case mouth area. Those roll crimps are more like a shotgun roll crimp and take up more real estate than the normal revolver style crimp. The wad blows them open on firing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for the replies. I should have said it's a 357 case drawn down to at the lip so it will fit in a 38 special cylinder. I think some of the replies are correct. It looks like the someone had their crimp die set up for 38 special and ran the 357 case through it. On the other hand, maybe it was a blank. Strange looking case though.
 

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With the headstamp removed it's likely someone was making an obsolete case. Kind of reminds me of a Nagant case but I don't know if that would work for the Nagant. But that's my vote.
 

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Okay, I'm confused. The only difference between a 38 spl case and 357 case is the 357 case is 1/8" longer, so it won't fit in a 38 Spl cylinder. Assuming you have not resized the neck, a fired 38spl/357 mag internal lip diameter (ID) would be around .357 (the bullet diameter for both 357 and 38 spl) which jives with what you said However, if the case is necked down to .357, that would seem to mean the outside diameter (OD) below the shoulder is larger than a 38 spl/ 357 mag case, yet it fits in your 38 spl. When you say, "It also is exactly at the length of a 38 special", are you talking about the entire case or the length to the shoulder. You may mean that it is a 357 mag case with a reduced case mouth so it would fit inside the headspace stop of a 38 spl, but that would require the bullet to be smaller than 357 as the stop inside the cylinder has internal dia of 357.

OTOH if the case mouth of a 38spl is reduced to 30 cal, then it is a 30-357 (aka 30/357 Paxton), or less likely the 300 Max Cat, which is a necked down (.30) 357 max case . Both utilize .30 rifle dies to neck down the case. Check it out; https://dandtcustomgunworks.websitetoolbox.com/post/300-max-cat-30357-5744675
 

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Okay, I'm confused. The only difference between a 38 spl case and 357 case is the 357 case is 1/8" longer, so it won't fit in a 38 Spl cylinder. Assuming you have not resized the neck, a fired 38spl/357 mag internal lip diameter (ID) would be around .357 (the bullet diameter for both 357 and 38 spl) which jives with what you said However, if the case is necked down to .357, that would seem to mean the outside diameter (OD) below the shoulder is larger than a 38 spl/ 357 mag case, yet it fits in your 38 spl. When you say, "It also is exactly at the length of a 38 special", are you talking about the entire case or the length to the shoulder. You may mean that it is a 357 mag case with a reduced case mouth so it would fit inside the headspace stop of a 38 spl, but that would require the bullet to be smaller than 357 as the stop inside the cylinder has internal dia of 357.

OTOH if the case mouth of a 38spl is reduced to 30 cal, then it is a 30-357 (aka 30/357 Paxton), or less likely the 300 Max Cat, which is a necked down (.30) 357 max case . Both utilize .30 rifle dies to neck down the case. Check it out; https://dandtcustomgunworks.websitetoolbox.com/post/300-max-cat-30357-5744675
But that doesn't account for the reduced rim thickness with the headstamp filed off.
 

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But that doesn't account for the reduced rim thickness with the headstamp filed off.
True, but it may be something as simple as the way the barrel chamber was drilled, had a slightly different shoulder angle than the ammo being produced, so the rim was filed down, or the shoulder was formed too high on the case, making the case too long.
 

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It could be they were trying to make brass for an 1895 Nagant revolver. Most guys would take 32-20 brass and file the head down until it cleared the cylinder block.
 

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The 357/30 starts as a 357 mag case, while the 300 Max Cat does start as a 357 Maximum case. The OP description of the case makes little sense. "I don't have a clue about this 357 case. I was sizing and de-priming it and noticed a ring just below the mouth. I used a micrometer on the mouth and it is .356. It also is exactly at the length of a 38 special." So the reduced mouth measures the same as a 357/38 special (.356), meaning the case itself would have to larger in diameter if was reduced to 356 (the size of a 357/38sp bullet). Perhaps he means the OD (not ID) of the reduced part of the case measures .356. Further he indicates the parent case is a 357, but then he says it measures the same as a 38 sp?? My guess is he has a 357 mag case with the none tapered portion is the same as a 38 sp. Further, if the OD of the reduced portion is .356, that means the case would pass through the ridge in the cylinder that is supposed to stop the loading of a 357 mag round.
 
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