10 +1 mags

1665 Views 15 Replies 5 Participants Last post by Taurus24740cal, Feb 15, 2008

Taurus24740cal

Discussion Starter · Feb 12, 2008

I was curious regarding the 10+1 mags. I understand that it is 10 in magazine + 1 in the chamber. What is the method for this? Load 1 round into the chamber via magazine, eject the magazine, then load 10 rounds into the magazine?

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

tman

· #2 · Feb 12, 2008

I fill the mag up, rack one into the chamber, remove the mag and load another into the magazine. Your way is fine.

Be advised that when you repeat this process with the exact same cartridge over and over, you might have trouble down the line with the pistol, the cartridge, or both becoming damaged. It has something to do wih the repetitive stress on the cartridge over time.

For that reason I routinely empty my magazines and reload them to re-shuffle the ammo..

Anyone else do this?

Taurus24740cal

Discussion Starter · #3 · Feb 12, 2008

stress of what? loading them in the magazine? or it cycling through the chamber? Hard to think that it would affect the pistol because its meant to do that. the cartridge... possibly, but then again they also withstand firing, and are often reloaded. Thanks for the info. I will be interesting to see what other say.

So in my case, its not really worth the hassle doing this for range use. Maybe for that extra emergency round during home defense huh.

tman

· #4 · Feb 13, 2008

I'll have to do some digging to find the reference, but I think the bullet was getting pushed farther into the brass case over time and threw itself out of spec. There was a some sort of incident as a result...

I recommend keeping the 10+1 configuration for any home or self defense applications.

tman

· #5 · Feb 13, 2008

Here's what I found...

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/kb-notes.html

Rauch published some specific information on this set-back issue in the May/June 2004 Police and Security News, in a feature entitled "Why Guns Blow Up!":

One last cause of "blowups:" The simple chambering and rechambering of a cartridge does push the bullet back into its case. Hirtenberg Ammunition Company of Austria (at the request of GLOCK, Inc.) determined that, with a .40 caliber cartridge, pushing the bullet back into the case 1/10 of an inch doubled the chamber pressure. This is higher than a proof load. This "push back" can occur with but one chambering since it is dependent on how well the case was crimped or sealed to the bullet. How many of us regularly chamber and rechamber the first two rounds of our carry loads? (Also, this chambering and ejecting chews up the case rim, which can cause a malfunction. If you are limited to how much ammo you are issued, after cycling the first two rounds a few times, strip the magazine and load these two rounds first so they are the last up in the stick.)

See less See more

Qwiks draw

· #6 · Feb 13, 2008

Bullet backset and the forces ramming the bullet up the ramp, into the chamber, and the heard contact the bullet makes with the chamber ramp and mouth are the reasons to vary the ammo after it's been recycled a couple of times.

Trauma to the nose of the bullet leaves it deformed or can. Repeating the actions just causes more deformation. That means the bullet can very well hangup on the feedramp and cause a jam, or possible double feed, under the right circumstances. Having to do a rap-tap-bang drill when seconds or split seconds count in a gunfight, is not the time to have that happen. Could mean the death or great harm will happen to the user.
So there is a precedence for this.
This all has been documented well in numerous gunfights to be of great consideration.

Taurus24740cal

Discussion Starter · #7 · Feb 13, 2008

This is good info! As of right now, I have some HP's loaded in my mags at home. Never one in the chamber. But when I go to the range I take them out and load in the FMJ's for shooting. Then after cleaning gun at home I put back in the HP's. Is this an issue? Should I be concerned? I dont want to finally have to fire those HP's and I end up being hurt.

Qwiks draw

· #8 · Feb 13, 2008

If the JHPs or solid nose ammo have been cycled through the gun several times then it is a good idea to burn them up as practice ammo next time out to the range.

If the cartridges were planted in the magazine only and then popped out of the mag 1 cartridge at time,not to worry.

It's cycling through the pistol that does the damage. Not popping them out of the magazine itself.

It might be adviseable to get a extra magazine or two (how many is up to you),and have several mags for practice with round nosed practice ammo.

Then have several magazines for the defense ammo only when needed. Leaving a magazine fully loaded will not put undue strain on the spring.

Magazines for practice can be seperated form those for defense. Marking can be done witha Magic Marker, women's nail polish( just a drop or two), or a drop of paint on the bottom of the magazine.

If the budget doesn't allow for getting extra mags just do things the way you have so far.

The practice ammo can be either solid nosed or JHP.

See less See more

dbsoundguy

· #9 · Feb 13, 2008

Wow ... this is a great post

Be advised that when you repeat this process with the exact same cartridge over and over, you might have trouble down the line with the pistol, the cartridge, or both becoming damaged. It has something to do wih the repetitive stress on the cartridge over time.

This happened to me when i had a 1911, so i would shuffle my ammo or like Qwiks said:
Burn it up for target practice after awile

Man.. i just learned a lot on this subject..
Thanks

Qwiks draw

· #10 · Feb 13, 2008

Hey DB, you add a lot to the discussions yourself.
Having a small library helps. Only need a couple of books for those who want to know but don't totally get into the shooting scene, but want a source nearby.

www.krause.com is a good starting place. Massad Ayoob has a 6th addition of Combat Handgunnery that even us layman types can understand.
There are exploded view books that have our models of pistols and break down procedures in them. Two books that cover a broad spectrum yet even for people who don't like to read a lot these will work out fine. The books have pictures describing things as well.
For those who don't want to read a lot but have a want to know these are good sources.

Taurus24740cal

Discussion Starter · #11 · Feb 13, 2008

so i mostly pop the JHP's out with my finger from the magazine before i shoot at the range. But I do recal cycling them via slide action once to see if they eject ok. Do you think this is a problem? I am concerned shooting them now!

Qwiks draw

· #12 · Feb 13, 2008

Once should not necessarily cause bullet set back. Could happen. Check the cycled cartridges to those of fresh ammo of the same type. If there is a noticeable length difference or the bullets seem shorter by looking at them or comparing side by side then do not shoot the shorter cartridges.

Otherwise things should be okay.
Safety being a key factor here... if in doubt, don't use.

Taurus24740cal

Discussion Starter · #13 · Feb 14, 2008

Im glad I posted the original question fo 10+1 which led to "Bullet Setback". I have never heard of this. After reading up further information on this I have concluded that I will no longer be using reloads at the range. Just because there is a slight increased chance that something could go wrong. Why take the risk at a couple bucks.

I also read that ammo manufactures typically rate there bullets to be cycled twice without suffering any bullet setback. Since mine have been cycled once (that I remember), I would like to measure them with a caliper. Does anyone have any brand new .40 S&W bullets (never loaded) that they can measure and post their results up here.

I would be happy if I could just use them up at the range but they dont allow HP's fired there.

Taurus24740cal

Discussion Starter · #14 · Feb 15, 2008

mm mm inches inches
un-cycled rounds cycled rounds un-cycled rounds cycled rounds
28.59 28.55 1.126 1.124
28.57 28.58 1.125 1.125
28.61 28.58 1.126 1.125
28.58 28.58 1.125 1.125
28.62 28.64 1.127 1.128
28.60 28.58 1.126 1.125
28.59 28.58 1.126 1.125
28.63 28.59 1.127 1.126
28.59 28.59 1.126 1.126
28.62 28.59 1.127 1.126
28.6 28.586 1.126 1.125 AVERAGES

hmm.. not sure how to post a table here. but i must say, i did get some interesting results. Almost all the rounds that I cycled through my pistol measure 28.58mm in total length. Although the averages are pretty similar the std devs are much different. On wikipedia, it is stated that the length of a .40s&w round is supposed to be 28.8mm. None of my rounds are even close. I wonder what the tolerance is??

See less See more

45 Forever

· #15 · Feb 15, 2008

I always start or finish shooting my best defence loads at least one mag to double check POA I've found certain rounds +p shoot off from my target loads so I like to know where the gun shoots cold and after 500 rounds dirty.

Taurus24740cal

Discussion Starter · #16 · Feb 15, 2008

But would anyone be concerned if a 40 s&w round is supposed to be 28.8mm long and it is only measuring 26.8mm?

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.