miserable accuracy and leading in Mod. 94, 22LR..... "Update* All's well
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  1. #1
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    miserable accuracy and leading in Mod. 94, 22LR..... "Update* All's well

    Hi guys,
    Hoping for a little feedback. First off, I'm not a "newbie" to guns in general but I sure don't "know it all" either!

    Heres what I got....I couldn't decide whether to get a 4 inch stainless or blue 94 22LR....so to follow my daughters advice, I got them both. For comparison, she has a Bearcat and I have a Single Six and a '43 Colt Woodsman....and we have a LOT of ammo of all types. Remington Thunderbolt and Winchester "Expert" is what I generally use.

    Well, here's the deal.....neither gun would shoot a group twice the size of the Ruger....more like 3 times the size. As I shot them they got better and better but each one had one hole that would throw a bullet 6-8 inches randomly in some direction!

    All testing was 15 yards from a rest. I verified it was in fact one hole in particular on each gun!

    Well, then they started leading and key holing after just a couple cylinders! With any bullets.

    They both also blow a lot of gas out the side of the cylinder.....more than my 45 colt Uberti. My Single Six will NOT stain your hands after 100 rounds....these will after 30.

    They have each been through several hundred rounds now and they have gotten much worse and not any better. If I clean them well and verify the barrels are clean, shiny and no lead they will each fire no more than 4 cylinders before they start key holing bullets and missing the sheet of paper completely! But the groups are still twice the size of the Ruger for the same range with always at LEAST one major flier even when just clean. After 50 you won't hit a piece of note book paper reliably.

    So, what do you guys think? Is this common for those pistols to lead that quickly and lose accuracy that fast? How could I have 2 bad ones? I am just depressed and confused at this point. It just doesn't make sense to me.

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks!
    Houndog


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    Re: miserable accuracy and leading

    Remington Thunderbolts for me are a no-no. I shot 100 rounds through my Walther P-22 and the lead build up was horrendous. Switching to CCI mini mags alleviated that problem.
    In Loving Memory---Anthony 10/12/1998 - 3/26/2010

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    Ace
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    Re: miserable accuracy and leading

    Can you get a picture of the leading? Also we need a picture of the forcing cone, that is the piece between the barrel and the cylinder. Also, with the guns unloaded cock the hammer and pull the trigger while holding the cylinder there should be little or no wiggle depending on how much the pistol was shot. There is also end shake, the front to back shake of the cylinder when in the revolver, there should be no end shake. All these could be factors in your revolvers not shooting well. All of which could be fixed by a gunsmith or you can take taurus up on their lifetime warranty. I'd still like to see a pic of the leading.

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    Re: miserable accuracy and leading in Mod. 94, 22LR

    Thanks guys, cylinder play is more than the Ruger for sure on both guns. I don't think image of the Fcone will show much. The leading seems to be in the cone before the rifling. And seems to fill the rifling quickly. A ridge forms above the cone on the frame however. I'll see what I can do about an image.

    I bought them both new on June 26. They both have been shot with mostly the Winchester ammo and some Stingers.

    Each has had several hundred rounds....maybe even 400.....they REALLY sucked when new.....and leaded slower. Now they lead up fast with the same ammo as before and have gotten much worse as far as accuracy deterioration. For a while they shot OK....before they went to Hell.

    NYPD....I noticed the Thunderbolt seemed to be leading up at day one. But was not sure if it was true. I quit using it and switched to the Win. Didn't cure the problem though. I am glad you verified what I thought!

    I should note I have a range in the yard and tend to spend a good bit of time there. I have ran about 900 rounds through the 45 Uberti since May. It shoots nice little groups. I did buy these things to shoot but so far am not having much fun. I seem to have spent a LOT of ammo finding out I wouldn't try and shoot a rabbit at 15 yards with them. With the Ruger he would be in trouble at 2-3 times that range.
    The Ruger has had zero problems in twice the amount of ammo as far as losing accuracy or leading of any kind. But it ain't DA and only holds six!

    Don't get me wrong, I am NOT trying to bash the Taurus.....I'll be fine if this can be worked through, I want to like them, I wouldn't have bought 2 if I didn't....but does any of this seem "normal" for these guns?


    Thanks again, guys.
    Houndog


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    Re: miserable accuracy and leading in Mod. 94, 22LR 8update* All's well

    Well, It turns out I'm 99% sure it was this batch of Winchester "Expert" Hp.

    I cleaned both very well and pulled out some Remington "Golden Bullet", Stinger and Velocitor.

    Fired 18 Velocitor and 9 Stinger and accuracy was good. As good as I can hold it, probably. I then fired 60 or so of the remington Golden Bullet. No trace of leading and accuracy was just fine. I'm happy at this point.

    I clean the Blue one and fire about a hundred Remington golden bullets through it. no trace of lead and the thing is shooting just like the Stainless...just fine. Having some misfires (4) with the Remington but the trigger pull is smoother and lighter than the Stainless (no misfires with it). This is not a problem.

    I have never had this leading problem in any 22 I have ever owned, so it did not seem possible the different batch of ammo was causing problems. Neither of those guns like the Remington Thunderbolt ( I agree with NYPD) or Winchester "Expert", at least the new box of Win., which is weird because that is all I originally shot except for the few Thunderbolts.

    I will also point out that the CHAMBERS were the "real problem"! The were leaded very badly, and smoothly. The rounds slipped in and fell out easily, so I did not even really notice how much was in them. I missed this until I put on my glasses and started looking at the things with a Q Beam for light!

    I know not to shoot Lead in a factory Glock barrel, but I have never had a 22 act like this. It is a non issue now......Remington Golden Bullets, Stingers, Velocitors or probably any plated bullet will eliminate the problem I am sure.

    Once again, it was something "simple".

    Thanks for having a forum to ask and air things.

    Houndog

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    Re: miserable accuracy and leading in Mod. 94, 22LR 8update* All's well

    Glad everything worked out for you. BTW----welcome to the forum.
    In Loving Memory---Anthony 10/12/1998 - 3/26/2010

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    Re: miserable accuracy and leading in Mod. 94, 22LR 8update* All's well

    I have always HATED Win. ammo. It is mostly the bullets I've thought -- it is AWFUL stuff in my experience. In spite of myself I bought like one-of-each of I think 22-250 at a local shop for a new Browning Winchetser Hi-Wall. At 100 yards I was getting 4"+ groups with a scope and was on my way back to the car to toss the gun in the ocean. I stopped, realizing I had only shot two different kinds of Winchester. Remington and Federal ammo? Went back and both shot cloverleafs. I shoot Winchester only accidently now.

    As for .22 l.r., try some EXPENSIVE target ammo where a BRICK of 500 still costs only as much as 50 rnds of big-bore centerfire.

    Alden
    BOB BARR '08
    NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, Training Counselor, Distinguished Expert
    Taurus' 96 and Tracker .44, Rossi M971 Comp. plus modern...
    Colts', S&W's, Browning, Walther, Star, Makarov, Radom, North American, etc.

  9. #8
    JR
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    Re: miserable accuracy and leading in Mod. 94, 22LR 8update* All's well

    Sit down on the couch one evening, turn on the TV, and clean the guns. When they're clean, cut a few tight-fitting patches from a Lead Away cloth for them. Watch TV, and polish the bore, and be amazed at the crap that comes out of the barrel. After polishing for 30 minutes or so, look at the bore. You'll be surprised at how shiny it has become. Now go to the cylinders, and do the same thing. A couple of hours at this, and both guns will lead much less, and accuracy may surprise you.

    This also has the benefit of a much easier to clean bore from then on. Spend a little quality time with the forcing cone, as well. These cloths will polish the bores, and cylinders when used in this manner, making them smoother, and less prone to fouling.
    "The past is another country, he did things differently there."

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    Re: miserable accuracy and leading in Mod. 94, 22LR 8update* All's well

    Houndog. Good that you found out what works in these guns. In my experience, some 22 rimfire guns are more ammo sensitive than centerfire guns. You usually need to find out what they DON'T like.

    I have a few rugers that are very nice and shoot just about every thing that is cheap.
    But my Walther, and Taurus are very picky.

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    Re: miserable accuracy and leading in Mod. 94, 22LR 8update* All's well

    Thanks Guys!
    Been away for a while and have done a lot more shooting. The ammo thing was a killer....I have 1000's of rounds of that Winchester because my Marlin LOVES it! My daughters "Cricket" does too! I stockpiled it specifically for the Colt Woodsman. That pistol shouldn't have "high velocity ammo". But I had all kind of other stuff too.

    The odds of getting Remington (Thunderbolts) and Winchester both to cause a problem was just something I'd never guess. Especially since I shot a lot of the Win. with no problem!

    Anyway, the "Golden Bullet" Remington is shooting very good through both guns and I now have plenty of that too!

    I tried the Stingers and Velocitor and both shot fine but neither was significantly better as far as accuracy.

    The Stainless now has over 150 Golden Bullets without cleaning and the last group clustered 8 shots into about an inch with one flier making it a 2 inch group. This is at 15 yards single action. It did 9 into 3 inches double action and I was amazed considering the stiff trigger!

    I'm a happy camper now and I hope you guys didn't mind me bitching right off the bat! I really was looking for and actually got "help"!

    Thanks!
    Houndog

    BTW....JR....what is "Lead Away cloth" and where would I get it? Thanks!

 

 
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