After action report - visit to taurus
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  1. #1
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    After Action Report - Visit to Taurus®

    The following constitutes the AFTER ACTION REPORT of our visit to TAURUS® Holdings Inc., and meeting(s) with the President & CEO Mr. Mark Kresser on 09/10, 11/2013. The facts, observations, and opinions expressed here are solely our (badge851 [Dave], & silverblackman [Mike]) own. Mr. Kresser allowed us 100% access to the facility AND to ALL personnel. NOTHING WAS HIDDEN, from our observations; or, questions. The views we expressed, and the answers received; apply to ALL TAURUS® and ROSSI® firearms.

    We centered on FIVE AREAs, and can clearly attest to you; that we voiced your concerns in a most frank and candid manner, (Mr. Kresser would have it no other way.) Those five areas are…..

    • TAURUS® LOGO MERCHANDISE
    • CUSTOMER SERVICE
    • WARRANTY and EXCLUSIONS
    • PARTS – RESTRICTED and UNRESTRICTED, MAGAZINES
    • WARRANTY REPAIRS

    1. TAURUS® LOGO MERCHANDISE: We articulated very strongly the demand TaurusArmed.net members have for TAURUS®/ROSSI® merchandise. Items like hats, shirts, wristbands, decals, golf balls, etc. TAURUS® clearly understands the need of getting their name before the public in a positive manner; and FURTHER APPRECIATES the LOYALTY OF TaurusArmed.net members. Mr. Kresser assured us that this project is already being aggressively worked on. They plan is to have the merchandise available through an e-commerce website as we members have requested. While we don’t have an availability date (yet), Mr. Kresser told us; “We understand clearly how much this is desired by our customers.” Bottom Line: THIS WILL HAPPEN!

    2. CUSTOMER SERVICE: We spent extensive time, both within the plant, and in conference with Kimberly Intagliata; Director of Customer Service. Kimberly manages all the gunsmiths, logisticians, and customer service technicians. She is responsible for parts, for the customer and for the gunsmith(s) to repair our firearms. She has expanded Customer Service operating hours from 08:00 – 24:00 EDT Mon - Fri; and, 10:00-19:00 EDT on Saturday. She has also instituted a discounted shipping label to assist the customer in reducing shipping cost. As an example, for badge851 living in Washington state, about as far as one can get from Miami within the continental US; it costs $75.00 to ship a handgun FedEx® Over Night to TAURUS®. TAURUS® will sell him a prepaid label to ship a gun for $50.00. That is a 33% savings! Customer Service has grown from three employees to twenty one under her 18 month tenure; a 700% increase. She clearly understands our frustration with the restricted parts policy. (More on this further in the report).

    3. WARRANTY and EXLUSIONS: During our discussions relating to the lifetime warranty accompanying TAURUS® and ROSSI® firearms; we asked how aftermarket coatings (duracoating, reblueing, gloss finishing SS, etc.) would be considered. The answer from the head gunsmith, Gabe, and confirmed by Mr. Kresser was that this would void the warranty; period. Polishing and or modifying ANY INTERNAL PART will also void the warranty. Many parts, both interior and exterior; are heat treated during manufacture. This treatment is typically, but not always; within the first 0.005 of an inch from the surface. ANY modification to the part, such as grinding, polishing, sanding, abrading, or stoning; removes the heat treatment and could quite possibly result in premature wear and ultimate failure of the part. With literally hundreds of different scenarios possible, TAURUS® and affiliates must maintain this policy. If you think for a moment this policy makes sense. We know of no firearm (pistol, revolver, rife, or shotgun) manufacturer, that warrants an owner, or previous owner, MODIFIED FIREARM; NONE! To be very candid, while we don’t necessarily like this; WE CLEARLY UNDERSTAND why this is the case.

    4. PARTS – RESTRICTED and UNRESTRICTED, MAGAZINES: This was the 899 pound ugly, frustrated, grumpy, dazed, and confused gorilla in the room! Mr. Kresser, Kimberly, and Gabe Cabrera CLEARLY UNDERSTAND; we (TAURUS®/ROSSI® firearms owners) ARE NOT HAPPY!!!!! They read TaurusArmed.net EVERYDAY, their customer service representatives hear it EVERYDAY, IT IS DISCUSSED BY MANAGEMENT EVERYDAY! TAURUS®/ROSSI® FULLY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE CURRENT POLICY CAN NOT CONTINUE. There are several factors, ALL OF WHICH impact the overall situation. ALL ROSSI® parts, and all TAURUS® parts, (with the exception of the PT 22, PT25, and 738 models) come from Brazil. Many times the wrong part is received (from Brazil); and if not caught by Miami personnel, stocked under a wrong part number. This wrong part, when sold to you or I, or issued to a gunsmith for repair; doesn’t solve the problem! TAURUS®/ROSSI® is thus left holding the bag. Sometimes it is the right part, but wrong finish; blued vs SS. It does TAURUS®/ROSSI® no good to sell us parts, if Brazil sends a cylinder stop to TAURUS® Miami for a 617/627 357 Magnum revolver; and it’s labeled as being for a 85 38 Special! A “Parts Person” may not, probably will not; catch this. Further it does TAURUSI®/ROSSI® no good; AND WE AS CUSTOMERS NO GOOD; if this situation was not found and corrected. What is TAURUS®/ROSSI® Miami doing to correct this shortfall?

    • There are now dedicated personnel in Porto Alegre (TAURUS®), and San Leopoldo (ROSSI®) whose sole function is to ensure THE RIGHT PARTS are sent to Miami.
    • Mr. Kresser trying to correct these problems has more air miles between Miami and Brazil than our astronauts at NASA have flying the Space Shuttle(s).
    • The people in Miami ordering parts from Brazil NOW, are not just parts people; rather they are FIREARMS PARTS PEOPLE and GUNSMITHS.
    • A FULL TIME GUNSMITH now works in the parts department.
    • BEFORE a part is issued to a gunsmith to repair a firearm, or sold to you or I; Kimberly ensures the part is vetted by her personnel; to preclude shortfalls.
    • EVERY SINGLE GUN, and EVERY SINGLE PART OF THAT GUN, IS IN THE BEGINNING OF AN INTERNAL VETTING PROCESS. This is an ENORMOUS UNDERTAKING and will not be fixed overnight. Like Reagan dealing with Gorbachev; when Mr. Kresser deals with Brazil he must “Trust but verify!”

    Mr. Kresser said to us; “My goal is to work with one item (gun) at a time to perfect this process. We want the customer experience to be a good one when ordering parts, however the devil is in the details. Some parts will require special work (installation) instructions and some parts will be easier to replace outside of our facility. When this process is implemented the end result is to provide a better customer experience and we will work very hard to achieve this as we implement this new policy.”

    5. WARRANTY REPAIR: Times have dropped significantly. ALL firearms received are “TRIAGED” by a certified gunsmith to determine SPECIFICALLY what is wrong. Once that determination is made he secures the part and sends the gun in for IMMEDIATE REPAIR. (That is why Dave had is repaired gun back in his hands in Washington State in eight days.) Repair times overall are continually diminishing under this new procedure. TAURUS®/ROSSI® spend over $4,500,000 doing warranty repair work each calendar year. The average cost to repair and return a gun to the customer is $72.00. Do the math and see home many guns they work on each day!

    If we could leave you with any parting thoughts; it would be these…..

    TAURUS®/ROSSI® truly understands just how upset we are!
    • We ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE they will fix this parts availability problem; maybe not as fast as we like (Brazil issues), but;
    THEY WILL FIX IT!
    • Mr. Kresser believes that TAURUS®/ROSSI® is just like a military organization; it either gets better, or it gets worse. There is no constant; no status quo. HE IS ENSURING THAT TAURUS®/ROSSI® IS GETTING BETTER EVERY DAY.
    • We (Dave & Mike) ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE in Mr. Kresser’s total integrity, Kimberly’s integrity, and Gabe’s integrity. And in the final analysis
    YOU CAN TAKE THAT TO THE BANK! THEY WILL FIX THIS!
    Last edited by badge851; 10-01-2013 at 01:48 PM.
    David
    CW3, U.S. Army (Ret)
    09/26/1968-05/31/1990
    Vietnam Veteran - 2 Tours

    Vulnerata, Fortis, Dignus Veterani
    كافر. المسلحة. جاهزة
    Only two defining forces ever died for you:
    1. Jesus Christ.
    2. The American Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine, & Coast Guardsman.
    One died for your soul; the other for your freedom.
    1Cross + 3Nails = 4Given
    _______________________________________________

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    Good report, thanks for the update...

    joeT likes this.
    NULLI SECUNDUS

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    Thanks, the problem lies in South America; that's cleared up.
    Free hats for All!

    "Always carry a knife with you. Just in Case there's cheesecake or you need to stab someone in the throat."
    "Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get and beat you with to show you who's in command."
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    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes."

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    In all seriousness, it sounds like a training issue on the part of the Brazilian factory. Maybe some work exchange should be done. Send some trained and experienced gunsmiths from the USA to them to help sort out the issues and then some of theirs over hear and show them how it's done...

    "Always carry a knife with you. Just in Case there's cheesecake or you need to stab someone in the throat."
    "Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get and beat you with to show you who's in command."
    Friends don't let friends buy Keltecs...
    Molon Labe
    I live in a purple house, you got a problem with that?
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes."

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    Sounds like they are taking it very serious and working to fix the problem. I really think they will get it right. We just need to give them time. Our collective voices have been heard. Thanks David and Mike for taking the time to do this for us. I know it was not a pleasure trip and one that took a tremendous amount of time from travel, meeting, and post write up. I commend you both for doing this. Your time is valuable and I appreciate you giving that up to help us out here.
    Last edited by HD-Mike; 09-23-2013 at 01:16 PM.

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    Hats off to both you fine gents for your work and endeavor!

    Hopefully, all will benefit from this. I think this marks the first time such a great effort is going to be made to get Taurus to be all that it can be.

    It sounds like both Dave and Mike conducted themselves well in a productive meeting with with the American powers of Taurus, and there seems to be a good recognition by those powers of the problems. Hopefully, the Taurus powers in Brazil will get on the same bandwagon.
    MilProGuy likes this.


    Mark Twain once said “In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.”


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    Very good read. Thanks for the report.

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    I'd like to thank both of our members for the efforts made on the behalf of all Taurus firearm owners. I know how difficult it can be to fly half way across the country, spend a day trying to get everything on your mind focused into words that will convey the message you want to deliver and then jump back on a plane and come home. Dave and Mike did a splendid job of putting a voice to the issues raised here. I have no doubt it had an impact on the folks at Taurus Holdings. Thank you gentlemen for your time and patience, and for representing TaurusArmed.net. Well done!




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    Sounds like we just need patience, something we aren't good at, to see the Taurus we want and expect.
    MilProGuy likes this.

  11. #10
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    Thank you both for the time involved in this project.

    Quote Originally Posted by badge851 View Post
    ....
    4. PARTS – RESTRICTED and UNRESTRICTED, MAGAZINES: This was the 899 pound ugly, frustrated, grumpy, dazed, and confused gorilla in the room! Mr. Kresser, Kimberly, and Gabe CLEARLY UNDERSTAND; we (TAURUS®/ROSSI® firearms owners) ARE NOT HAPPY!!!!! They read TaurusArmed.net EVERYDAY, their customer service representatives hear it EVERYDAY, IT IS DISCUSSED BY MANAGEMENT EVERYDAY! TAURUS®/ROSSI® FULLY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE CURRENT POLICY CAN NOT CONTINUE....
    Bottom line, was there any indication that restricted parts designation would change when they overcome the current obstacles?
    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

    The 2nd amendment is not about hunting or shooting sports, it is about the citizens of this country having the means to protect themselves and the states from the tyranny, oppression, and misery of an over powering government. Modern rifles are a means for the citizens to stand up to an over powering government.



    Taurusarmed.net Where are you map?

 

 
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