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load data ?

2K views 11 replies 11 participants last post by  Wolf1477 
#1 ·
It seems to me that some of the load data I encounter can vary quite a bit. For instance I am now starting to load .45ACP. I have 3 basic sources for data. The Hornady book that came with my press. Lyman 49th Edition. And I use the Hodgdon website. My first loads were done using once fired brass, CCI large pistol primers, 230 gr. FMJ round nose bullets and Win 231.

Here's the load data from the 3 sources...

Hornady book: starts at 5.0 gr. and lists 700fps., 5.3gr. at 750fps and max load of 5.7gr. for 800fps. Of course they list their 230gr. FMJ at C.O.L of 1.230"

Lyman book: starts at 5.2gr for 758fps. 5.8gr. max load at 849fps. That's with a unnamed 230gr TMJ at 1.275 OAL.

Hodgdon web site: 4.2gr for 751fps. Max load 5.3gr for 832fps. For a Hornady 230gr. FMJ FP, not sure what the FP stands for. 1.200" OAL

Last night I started loading my first test rounds before I looked at the Hodgdon site. So I made 10 rounds each at 5.0gr, 5.2gr, 5.4gr, and 5.6gr. And my OAL is 1.256+/- a thousandth. I checked the OAL on 2 factory rounds and they were both right at 1.264

To me the diferences in data can be a little confusing especially if you look at the max grains from Lyman at 5.8 compared to Hodgdons at 5.3. If I go by Hodgdon my last to test groups are over charged! Heck the Lyman book starts at just .1 of a grain lower than Hodgdons max.

I have a thought please edjamacate me....Hodgdon is seating the bullet deeper in the case causing more pressure with less powder?

I'm open for your help folks!
 
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#2 ·
They all use their own test equipment, Hornady and Hodgdon are in Nebraska and Kansas, Lyman in in New England, differences in ambient everything can affect the test results. The data is all safe at the test site, your job is to do what you are doing, test your loads in your gun. Do it judiciously and all will end well and you will eventually be satisfied.
I have never used 231/HP38 in anything, I was using B'eye and Unique before either of them were introduced and I was satisfied so I never changed. Good shooting, enjoy the challenges!!!
 
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#3 · (Edited)
Keep in the forefront of your mind that in today's litigiousness society no company would dare publish an unsafe load.

If you really want to see how loading data has changed, pal up with an ole fart that has some 20, 25 or 30 year old loading manuals and compare their charts with those of today.

Then you'll see why us ole farts say today's commercial +P ammo is a marketing ploy to sell more ammo vs. a truly quantum leap in ammo design.
 
#8 ·
Keep in the forefront of your mind that in today's litigiousness society no company would dare publish an unsafe load.

If you really want to see how loading data has changed, pal up with an ole that has some 20, 25 or 30 year old loading manuals and compare their charts with those of today.

Then you'll see why us ole farts say today's commercial +P ammo is a marketing ploy to sell more ammo vs. a truly quantum leap in ammo design.
Load data used to be basically 'calculated' for the pressure. ie C.U.P.
With technology today the pressures are verifiable and many use P.S.I
When reading your manuals' info, it's a good idea to check which [CUP or PSI]
they are using for that data, as it is mixed in today's books.
In the preface to each cartridge [say, Lyman 49th] they give you the test info....
bullet info, barrel length, etc. and any variation you use will obviously change the data.
I am sure you know this....it's just for others that may read later.
Even a hollow base wad cutter, seated the same as a flat base, will change the particular data.
Some of the data differences you see from each manual may just be the test components,
like barrel length, but that doesn't show up in the 'data blocks' for each projectile,
only in the preface, which some don't read or consider.
I use a lot of W231 and I like it, and I have used Unique since the early 70's.....
powders today are better than ever and unless someone loads 'super critical'
competition grade rounds...and has expensive equipment to test, I really don't
see much difference between most powders for my uses.
I don't load 100's of different calibers like I used to. I have simplified my
guns/calibers/powders/projectiles etc. so that I have just a few variations,
and all my equipment stays set up for those particular rounds......now I just load
and go shoot.....same stuff over and over, if that makes sense.....
I know I'm ramblin'....but this just falls out of me..:)
Just stay in the middle [data] and work slowly up or down to your liking,
AFTER you read and re-read ALL the data you have for each specific caliber.
One very important thing also is the firearm you will shoot what you make in.....
what condition and age is it, and the quality of it's manufacture.
I had a BRAND NEW .357 revolver lock up tighter than a bullfrogs behind
last year from a 10yr old box of Sellier&Bellot shelf bought ammo.[some of you remember...TTG]
Man those rounds were hot !!!!! They even kick like a mule in my Contender.....
When I work up hotter loads, I always use a Blackhawk or a Thompson Contender to test
until I am comfortable.....which is fine if you're a revolver nut like me, but maybe not so
doable for a semi-auto.....
Just read bunches and take it slow and easy and be safe...
Check what test components were used, and go gently from there.
[+P's......what a crock....]
 
#4 ·
I've loaded both 9mm and 45 acp with HP-38 as well as Bullseye, Titegroup and Unique. Now I love HP38 in 9mm but prefer Bullseye in my 45 acp. I also have several books which all have slightly higher and lower setting per ammo/bullet combo. I tend to go with the average of them all about center to start. I fine 90% of the time it is close to perfect though not always. Sometimes I will go up or down about 10% and retest but then I am aiming for accuracy and FPS means little to me really when it comes to accuracy.
 
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#6 ·
I use w231/HP38 exclusively in my PT 1911 SS reloads. 5.2 grains over a 230 gr FMJ RN works very well for me. I don't load for the "big bang" but rather for accuracy and economy. The 5.6 gr loads might be a little stout, but I would shoot one and check the brass for signs of over pressure. I think that your OAL is fine.
 
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#12 ·
Almost the exact load I use. I use 5.3 of W231 with a 225gr RFN from Missouri Bullet Co. Nice tame load that'll hit what I'm trying to hit every time.
 
#10 · (Edited)
You have a lot of different things that effect velocity. I have two different 1911's with the same length barrels. One has always averaged 50 fps faster velocity than the other with the same loads. The gun that runs lower velocity has always produced better groups. I have two Smith 357's with 4" barrels. One averages 70/75 fps faster with full house loads than the other and shoots better groups. I am about 600 feet above sea level. A friend out west lives in the mountains. We shoot several guns that are alike in make, model, and caliber. Load the same bullets, brass and powder with some loads but me being at a lot lower elevation requires different charge weights of powder to get the same velocities. You will find that bullets of the same weight can have a different amount of bearing surface, jackets can be harder, softer, different material, will shoot different than swaged soft lead or hard cast. Brass made by different companies can be the same outside but have thicker or thinner walls, web, etc. The multitude of different factors involved is one reason reloading books tell you to never take anything for granted and to work up loads for your guns. I load some hot hunting rounds that are built for the gun they are used in. Load and shoot a lot more that are middle of the road loads and used in several different guns. Special hot loads are always kept together, use bullets that I know by sight are different and never shared with other shooters.
 
#11 ·
Lots of variables unless one company shares info from another source, and a lot of them do as its very costly to test numerous loads.
but whats the type of testing apapratus? gun, (if so barrel length) test barrel, universal reciever?
the actual testing site as elevation, temperature etc have minor bearing on test results, the condition of the testing apparatus (wear) the lot of powder, the lot of primer, It can go on and on!
basically a lot depends on how safe the company wants to be about the load they are putting out there, the safer the load the less chance of liability!
I would venture to say any reputable company will produce a safe load, either use the starting load and work up for your particular gun(s) or if no starting load then back off the listed load 10-15% and work up from there.
 
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