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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DA-Auto View Post
    Might try a 147 round nose
    Some of the bullet casting co sell packs of about 10 pcs of different styles of bullets to test with and are cheep compared to buying a box of something . I also had a Kahr .380 that had to load a little heavy to get slide back all the way because of the strong recoil spring .
    Just looking for the right bullet
    This was for a defensive load. The normal round and truncated feed fine so far. Have ran a few hundred of each with no ftf. Going to try loading some up with true blue see if it makes a difference. If it keeps ftf then I know its the bullet design and will try another one still have another 150 more xtps left lol

    This was for a defenaive

  2. #12
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    This is a picture of the bullets, have not had a chance to strip the gun yet.
    Attached Images Attached Images     
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  3. #13
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    Nearly all semi-autos (at least the ones based on the Browning system - and your Ruger is no different ) move the barrel down, out of battery, when extracting, ejecting, and loading, thus leaving the barrel in a solidly fixed place when loading a round. Try this: Take off your slide, and barrel, remove the barrel from the slide, and seat it in the frame in the "loading" position; insert a loaded magazine and see exactly where the bullet is with relation to the loading ramp. Then, slowly move the loaded round toward the chamber and see if the bullet then strikes the feed-ramp properly. It should hit on the feed ramp face, not on the edge of anything. The spring-tension in the magazine and the angle of the feed ramp should cause the nose of the cartridge to snap upward, just before the rim of the cartridge is released by the magazine lips.

    FYI: The continuation of the loading cycle is that the nose of the cartridge then goes into the chamber and bounces off the "roof" of the chamber while the forward motion of the breech sends the cartridge to proper seat and as the cartridge makes itself concentric with the chamber and bore, the rim of the case slips up under the extractor.



    It may be that judicious polishing of the ramp will correct the problem - wrap some 600x wet-or-dry sandpaper around a round pencil or a 1/4" dowel, lube with some gun-oil and polish by hand in a "fore-and-aft" direction, the same direction the bullet will be moving while entering the chamber. (Don't use a a rotary "DREMEL: for this)
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  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash60601 View Post
    Nearly all semi-autos (at least the ones based on the Browning system - and your Ruger is no different ) move the barrel down, out of battery, when extracting, ejecting, and loading, thus leaving the barrel in a solidly fixed place when loading a round. Try this: Take off your slide, and barrel, remove the barrel from the slide, and seat it in the frame in the "loading" position; insert a loaded magazine and see exactly where the bullet is with relation to the loading ramp. Then, slowly move the loaded round toward the chamber and see if the bullet then strikes the feed-ramp properly. It should hit on the feed ramp face, not on the edge of anything. The spring-tension in the magazine and the angle of the feed ramp should cause the nose of the cartridge to snap upward, just before the rim of the cartridge is released by the magazine lips.

    FYI: The continuation of the loading cycle is that the nose of the cartridge then goes into the chamber and bounces off the "roof" of the chamber while the forward motion of the breech sends the cartridge to proper seat and as the cartridge makes itself concentric with the chamber and bore, the rim of the case slips up under the extractor.



    It may be that judicious polishing of the ramp will correct the problem - wrap some 600x wet-or-dry sandpaper around a round pencil or a 1/4" dowel, lube with some gun-oil and polish by hand in a "fore-and-aft" direction, the same direction the bullet will be moving while entering the chamber. (Don't use a a rotary "DREMEL: for this)
    Would doing this damage any coating on the barrel? According to ruger it is finished in a black oxide on the barrel

  6. #15
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    I don't use that bullet, but I use a 147gr lead flat point. I usually load them out a bit...like 1.13 or 1.15...and I don't have a problem with them in any of my (3) 9mm's. I wonder if increasing the length might actually help? I'm wondering if that would change the...."angle of ascent" so to speak. Just a thought. I've never done that and had it solve a problem. You never know in this game. But it will probably fail miserably.............
    stupimlico likes this.
    Definition of clip

    1: any of various devices that grip, clasp, or hook
    2: a device to hold cartridges for charging the magazines of some rifles; also : a magazine from which ammunition is fed into the chamber of a firearm.

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/clip

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenwolde View Post
    I don't use that bullet, but I use a 147gr lead flat point. I usually load them out a bit...like 1.13 or 1.15...and I don't have a problem with them in any of my (3) 9mm's. I wonder if increasing the length might actually help? I'm wondering if that would change the...."angle of ascent" so to speak. Just a thought. I've never done that and had it solve a problem. You never know in this game. But it will probably fail miserably.............
    That may actually work because I load my truncated cone 147 gr out to 1.150 and it cycles with no issues. I will try it out and see how it does
    glenwolde likes this.

  8. #17
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    Anyone who tells you to be cautious about messing with proven loads, is correct.
    I think that before you start changing the COAL you should look at issues mentioned here, such as the lip of the shell, and bullet design.

    Years ago I had a feeding problem with .45ACP, my gold standard for reliability, after I started using a new, hard-lead bullet. Everything I looked at or tried had little effect and I was greatly frustrated.

    With nothing seeming to be left, I compared the COAL of my handloads, as specified in the reloading manuals, to the COAL I measured of every commercial .45ACP brand and bullet weight I had or could borrow. They were all far shorter than anything I was loading per manuals.

    CAUTION! Do NOT try this without a chrono to do your testing. Be sure to use only quality guns in excellent condition.

    I began shortening my rounds a few thousandths at a time and loaded ten of each. I always always always load to SAAMI spec or less. I then fired each through my Chrony and found no significant difference, and spoke with some hand-loaders with a lot more experience than I: IPSC competitors who load by the thousands. They also load shorter than the manuals call for to assure reliable feeding. Some of them load lead semi-wadcutters VERY short.

    So, I now load shorter than the manuals call for, but still longer than commercial loads. I do this only for semi-auto rounds that have to feed from magazines. I still load to the manual-specified lengths for all revolver and rifle rounds.

    Many thousands of rounds later, no issues with any bullet. 9mm, .40S&W, .45ACP, 10mm.

    Might be worth a try for you.

  9. #18
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    When other hollow points have problems, the XTP usually works. The XTP is usually the easiest feeding and most accurate of all JHP bullets. The HAP bullet is a XTP made with short cuts to cheapen the cost without affecting accuracy. This bullet came about because a lot of competitors were using the XTP for its accuracy (which is kind of expensive for competition shooting). Somehow I do not think it is the bullet. How do you know the HP nose is hitting low on the feed ramp? You said when when you drop the magazine the round just falls out, so I assume it is not stuck, or jammed?

    One of the things I found out when I was loading SWC's to run in my 1911, is the ogive of the bullet must touch the feed ramp first, not the nose of the bullet, or the case mouth. On a SWC this is the shoulder, on the XTP it is where the bearing surface breaks to the nose. That ogive should hit the ramp before any other part of the bullet or case. There can be several reasons this is not happening.

    1. Bullet is seated too deep, the ogive needs to be proud of the case mouth by enough to touch the ramp first. You can load this bullet further out without issue, the Max OAL is 1.169", and you are at 1.100. Looking at my load notes for the 147 grain XTP in 9mm, I see OAL from 1.095" to 1.140" with most being 1.100". I usually make a few dummy rounds (no powder or primer) and manually cycle through until I have an OAL that feeds reliably. I use that dummy round to quickly set my seating die and my taper crimp die.

    2. If OAL is not the problem (ogive hits the ramp first), then your most likely problem is the magazine. Is the mag seating fully? If there is slop in the fit, check if the mag cutout has any burrs, and check the mag release for the same. Make sure the follower is moving up and down smoothly, the spring is in correctly and not kinked. Then you really need another mag to compare how the magazine lips are holding the round and compare how far apart the lips are on each of those magazines. You can adjust the how the round is held by opening up the lips in the front to raise, or tighten together to lower.

    From your explanation, I do not see how you can tell if the round is hitting too low on the ramp. If the round is actually hitting too low, you will probably see some bullet set back. If your OAL is too long for your gun (it varies by gun), it can be hitting the ramp which bucks the nose up and it hits the barrel hood so it slows the slide down and may not fully seat, or go into battery. You can get the same issue with a round that is too short for your pistol. It is hard to tell the difference. Come to think of it, pull your barrel and do a plunk test with those loaded 147 grain XTP rounds. You can get the same issue if there is a burr or some other constriction in the chamber.

    It helps even with rounds that work in your pistol to polish/buff the feed ramp, the barrel hood and the mouth of the chamber. I like to use a felt bullet tip and white Jewelers Rouge in my Dremel. Just make sure you are polishing/buffing and not cutting or changing any angles. I think the polishing gives you just a little more tolerance to get that round fully seated and in battery.
    Battle of Wanat: 10 years ago last 13 July, 1LT Brostram was killed in combat killing the last enemy combatant in the outpost. The LT went to the point of decision and made the difference that turned the tide of the battle. The original investigation found the Bde Cmdr, the Bn Cmdr and the Co Cmdr at fault for dereliction of duty. If you want to see what a sarcastic silver star citation reads like, pull up the company commander's silver star.

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenWolf70 View Post
    When other hollow points have problems, the XTP usually works. The XTP is usually the easiest feeding and most accurate of all JHP bullets. The HAP bullet is a XTP made with short cuts to cheapen the cost without affecting accuracy. This bullet came about because a lot of competitors were using the XTP for its accuracy (which is kind of expensive for competition shooting). Somehow I do not think it is the bullet. How do you know the HP nose is hitting low on the feed ramp? You said when when you drop the magazine the round just falls out, so I assume it is not stuck, or jammed?

    One of the things I found out when I was loading SWC's to run in my 1911, is the ogive of the bullet must touch the feed ramp first, not the nose of the bullet, or the case mouth. On a SWC this is the shoulder, on the XTP it is where the bearing surface breaks to the nose. That ogive should hit the ramp before any other part of the bullet or case. There can be several reasons this is not happening.

    1. Bullet is seated too deep, the ogive needs to be proud of the case mouth by enough to touch the ramp first. You can load this bullet further out without issue, the Max OAL is 1.169", and you are at 1.100. Looking at my load notes for the 147 grain XTP in 9mm, I see OAL from 1.095" to 1.140" with most being 1.100". I usually make a few dummy rounds (no powder or primer) and manually cycle through until I have an OAL that feeds reliably. I use that dummy round to quickly set my seating die and my taper crimp die.

    2. If OAL is not the problem (ogive hits the ramp first), then your most likely problem is the magazine. Is the mag seating fully? If there is slop in the fit, check if the mag cutout has any burrs, and check the mag release for the same. Make sure the follower is moving up and down smoothly, the spring is in correctly and not kinked. Then you really need another mag to compare how the magazine lips are holding the round and compare how far apart the lips are on each of those magazines. You can adjust the how the round is held by opening up the lips in the front to raise, or tighten together to lower.

    From your explanation, I do not see how you can tell if the round is hitting too low on the ramp. If the round is actually hitting too low, you will probably see some bullet set back. If your OAL is too long for your gun (it varies by gun), it can be hitting the ramp which bucks the nose up and it hits the barrel hood so it slows the slide down and may not fully seat, or go into battery. You can get the same issue with a round that is too short for your pistol. It is hard to tell the difference. Come to think of it, pull your barrel and do a plunk test with those loaded 147 grain XTP rounds. You can get the same issue if there is a burr or some other constriction in the chamber.

    It helps even with rounds that work in your pistol to polish/buff the feed ramp, the barrel hood and the mouth of the chamber. I like to use a felt bullet tip and white Jewelers Rouge in my Dremel. Just make sure you are polishing/buffing and not cutting or changing any angles. I think the polishing gives you just a little more tolerance to get that round fully seated and in battery.
    I I though it was just a magazine issue initially and put that mag aside, when it happened the second time I looked into the ejection port and saw the round pushed up against the feed ramp. Did not think to take a picture and did not even think anything out of the bullet just falling out when I pulled the magazine till I started thinking as to why I was having failure to feed. with the 7 loaded rounds I have I manually cycled them to check and all cycled correctly. when I loaded the said that I had to clear rounds back into the magazine it cycled fine and shot them all. I was thinking the bullet was too long but now Im thinking it may either be to short or a issue with the firearm or magazine. Im going to load up some at 1.150 and try them out and see I may also buy a few new magazines and try them to see if it helps and mark them differently to see if its any issue.

    would polishing black oxide coat on the feed ramp be a issue?

    thank you very much for the input

  11. #20
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    Polishing black oxide is not an issue, neither is polishing a nitrided feed ramp.

    I usually mark my magazines, just in case one starts to have issues.

    Just on the gun mechanics side. Your problem does seem strange and could be a couple of minor problems working together. If the round is freely dropping when you remove the magazine, the round could have just dropped back to the feed ramp when the slide was stopped by whatever is causing the FTF. You may want to look at the breech face and see if anything is burred, chipped or cracked, including the extractor and ejector. Look at the bottom of the slide and you should see a rail that rides over the magazine as the slide moves back and forth, check it for burrs, etc. Also there should be some kind of safety disconnect button on the slide, look to see if it is moving freely up and down, and look at the part of the trigger that pushes that safety disconnect button up and down, is it dragging on the slide? You are looking for anything that may be dragging on the slide and slowing down its momentum. Check the recoil spring area for anything that might drag on its operation. Scratch marks on the underside of the slide are an indication of something dragging.

    Make yourself a handful of dummy rounds and vary the OAL until you find a min and maximum length that the rounds will hand cycle reliably. Your best and most reliable OAL will be somewhere in between. When you were working up to this max load, did you have any problems? Typically, I load a ladder from starting load to max load in what ever increments I think are prudent, but usually at least 5. Then I load and shoot them one at a time from lowest power up to max, checking for cycling (if the gun does not fully cycle, check the barrel for a stuck bullet), then stopping and checking for pressure sign (look at the case) at each increment, before firing the next. This gets out of the way, up front, if I am going to have an issues with pressure or cycling. Once those are fired I can concentrate on best load for accuracy accuracy and reliability. Reloading starts with having a plan on how to test to get to where you want your reload to be. For SD that is reliability and accuracy, which is slightly different for every gun with every shooter.
    Last edited by GreenWolf70; 11-08-2019 at 10:49 AM.
    xiholdtruex likes this.
    Battle of Wanat: 10 years ago last 13 July, 1LT Brostram was killed in combat killing the last enemy combatant in the outpost. The LT went to the point of decision and made the difference that turned the tide of the battle. The original investigation found the Bde Cmdr, the Bn Cmdr and the Co Cmdr at fault for dereliction of duty. If you want to see what a sarcastic silver star citation reads like, pull up the company commander's silver star.

 

 
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