Lehigh Defense 9mm 90gr. Xtreme Defense and 380ACP 65gr. Xtreme Defense
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Thread: Lehigh Defense 9mm 90gr. Xtreme Defense and 380ACP 65gr. Xtreme Defense

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    Lehigh Defense 9mm 90gr. Xtreme Defense and 380ACP 65gr. Xtreme Defense

    PT709 Slim and PT738 TCP

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    Pretty interesting.
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    Excellent results, though I'd question the amount of unburned powder on the face of the Gel block from the 9mm. maybe a faster burning powder would work better given such a short barrel like the PT709.
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    Curious on why you chose to load Plus p pressure in a lightweight projectile and short barrel?
    your test , just wondering the reason for the choice?
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    Quote Originally Posted by olfarhors View Post
    Curious on why you chose to load Plus p pressure in a lightweight projectile and short barrel?
    your test , just wondering the reason for the choice?
    I loaded it from Lehigh Defense load data.
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    Guys, if you're really into making defense loads, you might want to check out the book, Quantitative Ammunition Selection, by Charles A. Schwartz. It reinforced an opinion I held for years, that calibrated 10% Ballistic gel is not nearly as different as some have said in comparison to water. I know Chuck from the web and looked me up after seeing some of my opinions on the web. From his research he has developed a very accurate modeling method and even describes how to build the apparatus in his book. The modeling program is called the Q-Model and Chuck furnished me with it and more recently the updated version with more data input.

    In short, what he has proven with well over 800 samples tested is that if you know the projectiles velocity as it enters water, by measuring the diameter of the recovered bullet, you can predict its depth of penetration in ballistic gel at a 95% probability. The 800 + test samples come from shooting loads into both mediums to make a direct comparison.

    Myself, I've simplified my own method which I've explained to Chuck and it works very well, just not with the same level of precision in how he goes about it. Take 4 - 1 gallon jugs filled with water. Line them up touching and turn the handles to the rear in the same direction. When you fire a round into the 1st jug, it should penetrate through the 2nd and stop in the 3rd. This is adequate penetration. If it goes far enough into the 3rd while not leaving it but denting the plastic at the rear and maybe denting the 4th. You've got a pretty good performing load. Penetration through 3 jugs and into the 4th is about all the penetration you'll ever need and if it penetrates completely through 4, it may overpenetrate when you least want it to. If you're not familiar with a new JHP you're testing, add a 5th and even a 6th jug to help stop the bullet. But through more than 4 you likely have an overpenetrator.

    Now, for the important part. One of the key elements in Chucks modeling system is that it predicts the amount of energy deposited in the target in the first few centimeters after impact. This is very key. and the higher the value, the better it is likely to be as a stopper. However, he does not rely on one round alone as we shouldn't either. The minimum is to shoot twice and assess. I also believe in Massod Ayoob's philosophy of shoot twice and if the target doesn't drop, put a 3rd round into the pelvic area in the event that your assailant might be wearing a ballistic vest.

    I don't mean to bust the Lehigh bubble, but for the best defense loads you need early and rapid expansion to get that early energy deposit while you still need a minimum level of penetration.
    Last edited by 57K; 03-16-2017 at 06:30 PM.
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    Barrier Blind


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    Subscribed. Good stuff.

 

 

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