Observations About Shooting Compact Pistols
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Thread: Observations About Shooting Compact Pistols

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    Observations About Shooting Compact Pistols

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    Observations About Shooting Compact Pistols
    « on: August 31, 2007, 09:57:45 AM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

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    This info or set of observations holds true for any of the Millennium or compact firearms.

    small
    « Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 04:00:02 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

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    Glock 36s are in the Gun Test magazine this month. It wasn't the test that interested me so much as the insights the staff at the magazine had on the G36 as firing the gun.

    It's their take that the 185 gr. bullets and lower are a good idea. Less recoil, better shot to shot recovery, and less muzzle flip that is pronounced in these small pistols. G36, Taurus 745,PT145, or any of the smaller pistols all have similar issues regardless of caliber.

    Putting a crush grip without it hurting was recommended. Where the fingers were placed on the grip was also addressed. Since Kahr and a S&W were also being tested there was much to say about how DAO triggers take a lot of practice.

    There was also the fact that this was different from gun to gun and most all the DAO guns seem to have long trigger pulls. These all need extreme dedication to learn and the act of gripping the gun has to be adjusted because getting good accuracy whether rapid fire or taking ones time, meant that these were harder to learn, but once mastered were good guns indeed for defense.

    People were to forget most of what one had learned about shooting regular DA/SA pistols and some revolvers and dedicate one's training to DAO and mind set strictly to these small pistols.

    Finger placement was addressed. Whether one use just the finger pad or used the joint as well were also a case by case basis for each type of pistol. The consensus was that the pad only was to be used if possible for DAO shooting, but trigger pulls being long and as hard as 7 to8 pounds of pull might mean that the knuckle of the digit is needed to assist the shot.

    This may not be news to a lot of people, but the gist is that the small pistols take much experimentation, trial and error, and experience to get used to shooting accurately more so than with the bigger pistol brethren.

    It might be wise to learn how to shoot the bigger pistols first, thus getting the basics down and then going to the smaller ones.

    As has been pointed out before snubbie revolvers and small pistols are specialist guns.

    Many staff and members here have gone straight into the specialist gun pool. Not a criticism. Just an observation. So the troubles we see with POI and also accuracy are not surprising.

    Fixed sighted guns POI on a case by case basis will vary greatly depending on the shooter and that particular example of pistol.

    Massed produced gun POI is hard to regulate at the factories for any brand, make or model. This is doubly so for the smaller or compact guns.

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    03Shadowbob
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    Re: The Glock 26 is sooooo small
    « Reply #11 on: Today at 08:03:08 AM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

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    I agree totally Qwiks. It does take a lot of practice and "reconditioning the mind" to shoot these little guns accurately. However, they offer so much in such a small package it is worth it IMO to learn how to shoot them effectively.
    I do enjoy taking some friends who are newer to shooting to the range and let them shoot my 1911, Mark II Target or the PT92 to get their confidence up then give them the PT140milpro. They can't hit the paper often times and realize there is more to shooting than just pulling the trigger.

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    Re: The Glock 26 is sooooo small
    « Reply #12 on: Today at 0905 AM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

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    03 Shadowbob, agree with you on your observations. What was printed is for the members and staff to realize what's needed to get the most out of their pistols and the amount of dedication needed to become and stay proficient.

    With DAO style triggers there is no worry about dropping the hammer on a live round after the shooting is done or before holstering. Put the safety on, if the make has one, and holster.

    DAO also means the trigger pull is normally the same each time shot for shot.

    There was an interesting side bar about how even some makes or brands have trouble where the DAO trigger will break. Even for each pull.

    The Kahr was sighted as being one of these. This was for the .45ACP version of Kahr's new polymer model. Just for that one example.

    Want to make a bet that this will be taken up by the bashers and cited as their reasons for having problems because they are having extreme problems? Didn't think so.

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    Re: The Glock 26 is sooooo small
    « Reply #13 on: Today at 0927 AM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

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    Did figure one way to deal with traditional DA/SA and DAO problems. When going to the range just take similar type guns,pistols and or revolvers. That way there is no having to reset the mindset. Might seem obvious, but have to say it.


    « Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 12:25:06 AM by Qwiks draw » Report to moderator 64.24.185.131

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    Qwiks draw
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    Re: Observations About Shooting Compact Pistols
    « Reply #1 on: September 19, 2007, 07:45:32 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

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    This is from another thread, but goes with the rest of this.

    Humans being somewhat lazy on gun maintenance( been there and do that at times), or expect " brand spanking new off the show room floor", are in for a bit of disappointment.

    These guns are test fired at the factory and may be so more than once through this process. It happens. Oiling and lubing for shipment and long term storage just add to the "gunk" or dirty problem.

    So a cleaning and lube prior to shooting is mandatory.

    As for the the ammo being dirty. All of it is to a certain extent. Some more than others for various reasons.

    All powders have varied burning rates. All powders burn faster or slower depending on their chemistry and physical make up. Also for what these powders were designed to do.

    Slower burning powders go for long barreled guns in general or to give the pressure spike curve more time to peak and then die out. There are other reasons, but won't go into all the details

    Faster burning powders normally go for short barreled guns. Or can.
    Just to make matters worse there are powders with middle of the road burn rates as well.

    There are a lot of vagaries and many factors as to how powders burn, are used in what ammo for what reasons, and perform in the field.

    With the short barreled pistols, the various powders wind up burning outside the gun or do not completely burning up inside. No chance to convert to usable energy. Not enough room to do so.

    Temperature, humidity, and other factors cause performance characteristic changes as well.
    So know we take commercial ammo of the various brands and shoot them through all types of pistols with varying degrees of all the factors presented here so far.
    These same ammos all have to fit and function through all the various pistols in known existence.

    Want to try to come up with that recipe folks?

    All these powders, in all these types of ammo, for practice or general use, are not normally the fast burn rate kind. Personal defense ammo is normally geared toward fast rate powders that will burn efficiently in medium to long barreled guns.Some ammo is designed for shorty barrels, but there are still too short barrels to take into consideration

    Take all these ammos and shoot them out through very stubby barrels just similar to a 2in. snubbie revolver, or less barrel length.

    Pistols measure barrel length in such a way that the whole cartridge case takes up a good portion of that "barrel length". This means a 3 in. barreled pistol may actually have only a 2in. or less true length for the bullet to travel before it leaves the gun.

    With all the at has been described above, is it any wonder that people think that their ammo has the dirtiest grit,grime, and baked on gunk when shot out of these short barreled weapons?

    Granted, the ammo makers are going to use a general use powder for there ammo to cut costs, but fit and function are still at the heart of the whole thing.
    Ammo makers have to come up with an economical way to have that fit and function work through a multitude of weapons. And.... do it profitably. That's why they're is the business.
    Yes, there are cheap powders, but that again does not mean poor quality as many will think.
    Cheap and crappy gets one's profits and business taking away by others in a cut throat market.

    So if we have to all apply some "elbow grease" and labor to cleaning the gun, so be it.

    Most ammo makers do try to have very efficient burning powders. It's in their best interests to do so with the picky crowd of shooters out there who demand performance.





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    texas shooter
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    Re: Observations About Shooting Compact Pistols
    « Reply #2 on: October 14, 2007, 0536 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

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    You did not only hit the nail on the head with both these posts you put it through the 2X4.
    That covers alot in a nut shell, esp. the cleaning !


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    Re: Observations About Shooting Compact Pistols
    « Reply #3 on: October 20, 2007, 11:03:25 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

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    Good post!! very informative, I agree about the cleaning, I clean after every range trip (at least once a week)

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    Qwiks draw
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    Re: Observations About Shooting Compact Pistols
    « Reply #4 on: March 15, 2008, 0303 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

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    Gathered info on target download sites. These targets either give feedback or are also for left handers.
    Also included is DAO trigger info. Newbies seem totally unaware of mindset and dedication needed to use these trigger types.
    http://www.is-lan.com/challange/imag...orrections.pdf

    http://www.reloadbench.com/pdf.html
    http://www.bullseyepistol.com/training.htm


    DAO trigger info(besides the FAQs) is
    https://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...p?topic=5542.0
    https://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...p?topic=2418.0
    https://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...p?topic=2418.0
    https://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...45046#msg45046
    https://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...p?topic=5001.0
    https://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...p?topic=3233.0
    https://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...17583#msg17583

    Point of Impact and POA issues.
    https://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...p?topic=2206.0
    https://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...p?topic=2272.0
    https://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...p?topic=3355.0
    https://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...p?topic=1014.0
    https://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...p?topic=3355.0
    https://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=408.0
    https://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...p?topic=1744.0
    https://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=517.0
    https://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...p?topic=1014.0

    Time for an upgrade.



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    Re: Observations About Shooting Compact Pistols


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    Re: Observations About Shooting Compact Pistols

    Here's some sight help for 6 o'clock and on target sighters.
    http://www.bobtuley.com/sight_picture.htm

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    Re: Observations About Shooting Compact Pistols

    Just goes to show one can learn about being steady on the trigger at other sites.
    Sites for sites. LOL
    http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=301493

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    Re: Observations About Shooting Compact Pistols

    Update time.

    This is for those who are having problems with the Millennium pro or 24/7 Hienie sights.
    https://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...?topic=16325.0

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    I find the grip of the Millenniums to be on the small side for my hands, and a grip sleeve like this Houge made a noticeable improvement in my unsupported shooting, particularly at 25+ yards.
    Qwiks draw likes this.

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