Another mass shooting, and now new calls for gun control...but what if...... - Page 3
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 38
Like Tree141Likes

Thread: Another mass shooting, and now new calls for gun control...but what if......

  1. #21
    dcc
    dcc is offline
    Senior Member
    Member #
    4064
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    3,263
    Liked
    6102 times
    I agree with the right to bear arms. I don't like how liberals try to make guns the issue. BUT, I also hate how many conservatives don't offer solutions to at least minimize the loss of lives due to gun violence. It just comes off as I want my guns and I don't care about anything else. surely there are some measures that can be taken to decrease gun violence a few percentage points that doesn't affect law abiding citizens who own guns.

  2. #22
    Senior Member
    Member #
    15068
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Ashland, Kentucky
    Posts
    14,637
    Liked
    25977 times
    Considering the fact that no gun law has ever been written that has stopped someone determined to kill people from getting a firearm and using it, and considering that, IMHO there is no law that can prevent a crime from happening as laws only serve as a way to punish someone after the act. As such, I propose that all laws concerning firearms be declared a failure and voided.

    Keep the crime of murder as it is the only prohibition needed to deal with those that choose to kill, regardless of the manner chosen to do so.

    Also, make murder a hangin' offense again.
    Last edited by RScottie; 06-19-2015 at 06:38 AM.

    MOLON LABE
    "Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace." ~James Madison

  3. #23
    Supporting Moderator

    Member #
    32159
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Rapid City S.D.
    Posts
    5,340
    Liked
    7798 times
    Just read that the shooter has expressed racial hatred to friends and family over the pastfew months, and apparently told some friends he was going to start a race war and then kill himself.............Not one of these little assholes said anything to anybody about his plans!
    There are "four boxes" that can be employed to resist the downfall of America, the ballot box, the soap box, the jury box and, lastly, the ammo box.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    TaurusArmed.net
    Advertisements
     

  5. #24
    Senior Member
    Member #
    15068
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Ashland, Kentucky
    Posts
    14,637
    Liked
    25977 times
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc View Post
    I agree with the right to bear arms. I don't like how liberals try to make guns the issue. BUT, I also hate how many conservatives don't offer solutions to at least minimize the loss of lives due to gun violence. It just comes off as I want my guns and I don't care about anything else. surely there are some measures that can be taken to decrease gun violence a few percentage points that doesn't affect law abiding citizens who own guns.
    People that wish to take others lives will find a way to do so no matter how many laws are made. I mean, if they are willing to commit murder, do you think they would abide by any prohibition on them having a gun?

    So, IMHO, the only real measure that can be taken is swift and severe punishment for murder.

    Also, make it easier for people to obtain firearms for self defense, ie get rid of the useless gun laws that have done and will never do anything to stop someone that wishes to commit murder with a firearm.

    MOLON LABE
    "Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace." ~James Madison

  6. #25
    dcc
    dcc is offline
    Senior Member
    Member #
    4064
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    3,263
    Liked
    6102 times
    Quote Originally Posted by RScottie View Post
    People that wish to take others lives will find a way to do so no matter how many laws are made. I mean, if they are willing to commit murder, do you think they would abide by any prohibition on them having a gun?

    So, IMHO, the only real measure that can be taken is swift and severe punishment for murder.

    Make it easier for people to obtain firearms for self defense, ie get rid of the useless gun laws that have done and will never do anything to stop someone that wishes to commit murder with a firearm.
    That is a solution but it isn't one the will pass the sniff test in a political environment. You just said more guns will stop more guns. That isn't the answer. Increasing or decreasing gun ownership isn't a viable solution from my point of view. Laws aren't the solution. I believe gum safety and firearm education is a start. Also, maybe a little push on Hollywood and the music industry to reduce the portrayal of gun violence could help. I don't know but I think there are options we aren't exploring.
    jonrjen likes this.

  7. #26
    Senior Member
    Member #
    15068
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Ashland, Kentucky
    Posts
    14,637
    Liked
    25977 times
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc View Post
    That is a solution but it isn't one the will pass the sniff test in a political environment. You just said more guns will stop more guns. That isn't the answer. Increasing or decreasing gun ownership isn't a viable solution from my point of view. Laws aren't the solution. I believe gum safety and firearm education is a start. Also, maybe a little push on Hollywood and the music industry to reduce the portrayal of gun violence could help. I don't know but I think there are options we aren't exploring.
    I would add, raise your kids to be respectful of others and do unto others as you would like done unto you.

    And yes, more guns in the hands of good guys is the answer. When good guys have guns, they can take out the bad guy.

    And you are correct, laws are not the solution. Laws merely give us the means to punish those that break them.
    Last edited by RScottie; 06-19-2015 at 02:10 PM.
    BigBlue, jonrjen and rifleshooter like this.

    MOLON LABE
    "Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace." ~James Madison

  8. #27
    Supporting Moderator

    Member #
    32159
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Rapid City S.D.
    Posts
    5,340
    Liked
    7798 times
    Nothing is going to change in this World we live in anymore, because the younger generation
    has not been taught integrity, morals, and just common sense............
    It's all about me and my wants, without having to work for a future or pay in sweat and blood.
    It's a new world order, and those of us who lived in a different time are dinosaurs...........
    There is so much blame to go around, t.v., music. politics and politicians, parenting and the lack thereof,and and overall apathetic view
    of America............
    New gun laws will do nothing, just as the old laws have done nothing, if a President were to outlaw anything that can kill, hammer, knife,car ect,
    EVERYBODY would be pissed, as it would personally affect them and their livelihood. Guns are this Countries main topic right now because
    they are a niche item, important to us, but not so much others.
    And tin foil hat or not, there is a sinister plan afoot to start a race war, don't know how high up it goes, but the pot is boiling, and
    I hope all of us as well as others out there don't get pulled in to this............
    There are "four boxes" that can be employed to resist the downfall of America, the ballot box, the soap box, the jury box and, lastly, the ammo box.

  9. #28
    Senior Member
    Member #
    3382
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Salem, Virginia
    Posts
    4,345
    Liked
    381 times
    another felon with a gun. This has nothing to do with gun control, as we all know. These people that commit these acts don't get their guns legally and even if guns were completely illegal, they would find one and commit the act anyway. It's a shame that people will hear about this and go, we need to do something about gun control. This is because they are ill informed and are sheeple.
    jonrjen and rifleshooter like this.
    -----------------------------------------------
    Life, Liberty, And The Pursuit Of Those Against It

  10. #29
    Senior Member
    Member #
    34426
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Lenoir City, TN
    Posts
    6,837
    Liked
    17893 times
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc View Post
    That is a solution but it isn't one the will pass the sniff test in a political environment. You just said more guns will stop more guns. That isn't the answer. Increasing or decreasing gun ownership isn't a viable solution from my point of view. Laws aren't the solution. I believe gum safety and firearm education is a start. Also, maybe a little push on Hollywood and the music industry to reduce the portrayal of gun violence could help. I don't know but I think there are options we aren't exploring.
    the real problem, and this is the problem everywhere, not just here, is that someone who wants to kill someone, IS, going to do it, not even arming everyone on earth with 2 or more guns and requiring them to be carried at all times will stop that, if every single person in the church in this latest shooting had a gun, and had training much better than any on earth, so all of these people will be quick to act and every shot will hit the intended target (a situation that not even movies could sell i might add) if this person wanted to kill someone, he would have still gotten 1-3 before anyone could react, probably closer to 5 before any reaction time from even the fastest human could have drawn a weapon, found the person doing the shooting and shot them. The shooter who just wants to "kill people" has the advantage in that they do not care who they target, they will target the closest targets, or the highest concentration of people because they know these will be the better guarantee to kill someone. and that is all they want to do.

    Obama said that this is a issue with our gun culture that this guy was able to get a gun with no problem and that it is a constitutional issue, and that congress has to do something about it. he also said that we are the only country on earth where these kinds of mass shootings happen, at least in a advanced country, and lets be honest, if you take the middle east out of the picture, and any other places where your morning routine is get up shoot milk delivery guy drink milk shoot 2 or more people in the streets on your way to work as a suicide bomber, out of the equation, and you JUST use gun violence as the measuring stick, obama is right, as painful as that is to read it is more painful to type, but the guy is right. however in these other countries where guns are outlawed, they have bombings, and have them near as frequently as we do shootings. mass murder isn't a US issue it is a world wide issue. and really no solution exists.

    Arming more people will do 1 thing, allow someone a chance, and that is all it will be, a chance, to stop the shooter prior to them being able to shoot more people, but even that has a major down side, less than 50% of people who get a gun for protection actually take it and shoot it, the number is probably closer to 25% of owners who actually know what they are doing, the others are going to be just as much of a threat to the other people in the area as the shooter would be, the only situation where they might be ok is, if they have nobody between them and the shooter, and nobody on the other side of the shooter.

    Personally, i don't think a solution exists for this issue, we have always had crazy people willing to kill others, all the way back to the dawn of man, you try to implement some control of gun ownership by crazy people, very shortly everyone is a crazy person, the definition of crazy could go to include anyone who has ever even stopped to drop someone else off at a psychiatrist. and it is a short step to say, anyone wanting a gun will have to pass a physiological evaluation. eventually you will get some physiologist who is very anti guns and will say anyone who wants a gun for defense is suffering from paranoid delusions, those that want them for recreational shooting, are suffering from violent tendency.

    and even if you did not only ban all guns and confiscate them all, nation wide, the ban i think could happen, and i think it is a far more likely thing now then ever before, we wont come out of this without a drastic and fundamental change to our country, this one wont go away until something is done. So a ban on all future sales, and ammo sales, along with ammo supplies, yeah, i do see that as a real possibility for the first time ever. but confiscation, i just don't believe that can ever happen, and only for one reason, lack of manpower. at the very least i can see a new tax, or ownership fee also called a tax being imposed that would make it where owning a gun is just to expensive to do.

    but lets say they did, well the boston bombers proved you do not need a gun to kill and maim. in fact for a fraction of the cost of this guys gun, magazines, and ammo, they killed and maimed many times his number of victims, and did so with a backpack, something that every school aged kid is expected to carry, so it wont seem out of place, heck this kid could have made a bomb out of a big gulp that could have done much more damage then the handgun he used. and he could have done it easily. and again for a fraction of the cost.

    how do you stop this kind of threat? closer monitoring isn't going to get it done, so do you instead say, anyone that it can be proven he talked to about his intention, like whoever he said "i want to kill some black people" to, also gets charged as a accessory to the murders? that would make it where people would turn people who make comments like that in much more often, and then you make it where they loose all current guns and cant get any others for like 10 years. and have to go to therapy during that time still not being able to get a gun if a therapist doesn't sign off on it, do you do that? that might prevent something like this from happening.

    But it also would cause that guy in your neighborhood who knows you have guns, and hates guns, to call the police on you and make something up to get your guns taken away, just like when people were turning people in for communism when they were not.

    the problem is, no real solution exists, nothing can really be done that isn't going to be able to be heavily abused to stop the crazies you have to step on the rights of the law abiding, this has always been the case, and always will be the case.

    So i ask, not just you, but anyone, as no real solution exists, are you willing to, give up ever buying a gun or ammo again without having to get a physiological evaluation? this wont stop a stolen gun and ammo from being used, but it would stop someone like this guy from getting a gun and ammo, unless of course he was smart enough to fool the examiner, curses, that plan wont work, might get a smart crazy guy who could still buy a gun. So next up, raise the tax super high, so your $20 box of 50 rounds now costs $1000, that would sure stop allot of people shooting guns, but again, your crazy doesn't plan to live past this, or at least not be a free person, so they probably don't care that they had to save up and then clean out a bank account to buy ammo and a gun. Strike 2. Do you hold everyone equally accountable who ever had a chance of hearing what these people said prior to the event, so that means anyone who read a facebook post this guy might have made could be charged for his murders. this one might work, but you go into the area of, where does it stop.

    The sad truth is, no real pathway exists to stop things like this, even taking the guns wont stop it, a few paths give some hope for at least mitigating the impact of events like these, but none exist that can actually stop them.

    As a society we have gone from one that parents taught the children accountability, educated them on the way life works, explained that you wont be happy every single day of your life. when they saw them pulling the legs off the cat, they said, that kid is really messed up, and tried to get them help instead of just saying, well he didnt know what he was doing.... We have gone to a society where we make excuses for peoples bad behavior saying that they are just misunderstood, parents, if they are even there, are plopping kids down in front of a tv instead of interacting with them, no responsibility exists from parent to child, or child to parent.

    and the end result of that is, the world we currently live in.
    Wino, RScottie and jonrjen like this.
    "Let's get on our knees and pray. I don't know to whom. Is there a patron saint of ballistics?"-Adam Savage
    Its never wrong, it just hasn't been fixed right yet. -TSH

    If Guns Kill People. I guess Pencils misspell words, Cars drive drunk & Spoons make people fat.....

  11. #30
    Senior Member
    Member #
    36191
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    4,988
    Liked
    3365 times
    Quote Originally Posted by jonrjen View Post
    All the anti gun people and like minded factions all have new ammunition after last nights mass shooting at a church prayer service.

    One coward with a sick mind opens fire on 9 innocent people, and everyone from the non gun believer that delivers your morning cup of coffee all the way up the chain to the steps of the White House are now once again preaching that "Guns are Bad, and the government needs to control them".

    What would happen if a political official, or group of Pro Gun people were to take this same opportunity to promote gun ownership. If 7 of the 9 individuals in this church were to have been armed, would there be 9 victims? I highly doubt that the 7 armed individuals would not have protected one another.

    Maybe the stand should be that if you arm the sheep, they are no longer sheep. And while not everyone will be open to carrying a firearm, the great number who do would be there to watch over the sheep in the heard. Not unlike the Sheepdog that watches over and protects those innocent sheep around him.

    The answer is not in gun control, but more in firearm promotion and education.

    When the hostility and prediction of war or evil up rising appear, the government begins to build its armed forces to protect and defend its citizens.

    Why is it when society becomes more dangerous and unpredictable, this same government wants to take away and control our ability to arm and protect ourselves as well as our neighbor?

    Just thinking out loud, you have the right to agree with me or not or maybe only impart.
    OMG! This is what I was thinking after this happened! Firearm education is key but that goes against controlling people.
    jonrjen likes this.
    Life is full of give and take. Give thanks and take nothing for granted!

 

 
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Home | Forum | Active Topics | What's New | Subscribed Threads | My Threads | My Posts

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Happened again in Colorado, mass shooting
    By jestmaty in forum The Firing Line
    Replies: 134
    Last Post: 07-29-2012, 12:16 PM