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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peacemakr40 View Post
    So what liability does Costco hold since this happened on their property?
    I'm sure there is a percentage that the lawyers will conjure up.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peacemakr40 View Post
    So what liability does Costco hold since this happened on their property?
    Most of these major companies and even many smaller ones post signs in their parking lots that say they are not responsible for theft or damages to vehicles or contents. If you look around, you'll be amazed how many of them you start to see. Those signs aren't what make them non liable, those are just courtesy signs to let customers or others using that property to park their vehicles know that the onus is on the individual, not them.

    As for an individual being responsible if they were to discharge a firearm and hit a person or a thing they then do damage to (or kill), they are always responsible. If you hit a person, the law may clear you of a criminal act depending upon the circumstances, but that doesn't get you off the hook for a potential civil suit. And even a clear across the board "good shoot" won't get you off the hook if one of your bullets should find its way into a vehicle, structure or other type object and cause damage. The owner of that vehicle can then sue you for damages, and be justified in doing so. As Massad Ayoob has said on numerous occasions, every bullet you discharge has a lawyer attached to it, so shoot straight and true if you absolutely have to shoot.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peacemakr40 View Post
    So what liability does Costco hold since this happened on their property?
    It is not uncommon for business owners to be found liable for criminal activity that takes place on their property (no matter how idiotic it sounds). There's a case that is studied as an example where criminal activity took place in a parking lot and the business owner was aware of it and did not take any steps (security, cameras, etc.) to repel the activity and was held responsible because he had knowledge. The law will impose a duty of care on a business owner who knows of a problem and takes zero steps to address the problem. It isn't likely Costco can be pinned down on a shooting, but if there was previous activity in their parking lot or previous activity with this individual and they did nothing, some lawyer and an idiotic judge will entertain suing Costco. Hey, they've got piles of money and someone else wants it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonrjen View Post
    I was wondering more if Costco would cancel his membership for carrying a firearm in the store. While not posted outside of the store to prohibit conceal or open carry is it a condition of membership to not carry in the store.
    I think they would be within their rights to cancel a membership should they positively determine that you are carrying a concealed handgun. Their policy does say that. https://www.concealedcarry.com/firea...os-gun-policy/ However, unless they have a 30.06/7 posting or a “Trespass by License Holder with a Concealed Handgun” sign I don't think they can legally prohibit carrying of a concealed handgun. I could be wrong on that however. That said, my Costco has no such signs posted and have carried there many, many, times and I will continue to do so. My desire to defend myself supersedes my desire to retain my Costco membership.
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    A great place to learn about this subject is the book: “The Law of Self Defense”, by Andrew Branca.
    He also has a website: LOSD.com.
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  7. #16
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    ^ Excellent read. Highly recommended. Good cite 777.
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  8. #17
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    Here's what Texas says regarding injurying a third party innocent person in a shooting:

    Texas Penal Code Section--Sec. 9.05 Reckless Injury of Innocent Third Person

    "Even though an actor is justified under this chapter in threatening or using force or deadly force against another, if in doing so he also recklessly injures or kills an innocent third person, the justification afforded by this chapter is unavailable in a prosecution for the reckless injury or killing of the innocent third person."



    Damage to property can result in a lawsuit, as well.

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefduane View Post
    I think they would be within their rights to cancel a membership should they positively determine that you are carrying a concealed handgun. Their policy does say that. https://www.concealedcarry.com/firea...os-gun-policy/ However, unless they have a 30.06/7 posting or a “Trespass by License Holder with a Concealed Handgun” sign I don't think they can legally prohibit carrying of a concealed handgun. I could be wrong on that however. That said, my Costco has no such signs posted and have carried there many, many, times and I will continue to do so. My desire to defend myself supersedes my desire to retain my Costco membership.
    Yes, a property owner or someone in charge of the property can legally prohibit a concealed carrier from entering property even if the signage is not present.



    Texas Penal Code Section 30.06--Trespass by Licensed Holder with a Concealed Handgun

    (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
    (1) carries a concealed handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,   1 on property of another without effective consent;  and

    (2) received notice that entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden.


    (b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.



    Texas Penal Code Section 30.07--Trespass by Licensed Holder with an Openly Carried Handgun

    (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
    (1) openly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent;  and

    (2) received notice that entry on the property by a license holder openly carrying a handgun was forbidden.


    (b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.


    Note the oral communication. There need not be signage. The State of Texas never compromised the owner's right to his property regarding handgun possession

  10. #19
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    I've taught for nearly 50 years that "every bullet fired has an attorney attached to it".

    They will continue their travel until they strike someone or something and the shooter is liable.
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  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOONDAWG View Post
    I've taught for nearly 50 years that "every bullet fired has an attorney attached to it"

    They will continue their travel until they strike someone or something and the shooter is liable.
    That's not my experience. I've fired thousands of rounds at the range and I never saw a lawyer lying around when I changed targets or policed my brass.
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